22-09-2012, 23:10
Confused about Vitex, please help...
May 7 2008 at 7:57 PM Conner (no login)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all!
Sorry to keep asking questions, but you all have so much knowledge when it comes to this, and I am so new to it. About Vitex, I have read on many posts that it is good for progesterone deficincy and estrogen dominance. But on here also say it balances your hormones in general. So could that mean that it could work as effectivly if you were estrogen deficent, etc. I guess I am asking if it balances you hormone imbalance, whatever that imbalance may be. Thanks for the help!
Author Reply
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 2:27 AM
Hi Conner,
This is vitex as I see it and backed up by the excellent information that is located in the information on herbs section.
Vitex has an effect on the anterior pituitary gland. It will promote the production of progesterone in the body by stimulating the corpus luteum to produce more hormone. It also lowers prolactin. It takes about 3 months to feel the full effects of this herb. Studies have shown that there seems to be no detrimental effect with long term use of vitex.
It does not 'balance' hormones. It only promotes the increase of progesterone and the lowering of prolactin. If this is what you need to 'balance' your hormones then yes, it will do you a lot of good (estrogen dominance/progesterone deficiency, hyper-prolactin states, etc).
If your hormone imbalance involves too much androgen, too little estrogen or.... whatever else... then vitex will not 'balance' your hormones (okay, to be totally factual, the increase of progesterone will in fact activate estrogen receptors and progesterone is used by the body to make estrogen... BUT, it is not a classic treatment for low estrogen)
I do not know why everyone thinks you should never take vitex with any other herbs?? Why?? I can see as how if you are trying to increase prolactin, then you would not want to use it, so that rules out fenugreek and goat's rue, I think, but not other herbs. If anyone has a link to scientific studies that indicate the restriction of vitex or if you can point me to a discussion on this forum that speaks about specific reasons for such a restriction, then I would appreciate it.
So, to summarize. Vitex is good for stimulating the body's production of progesterone (if the woman has intact ovaries and has not gone through menopause). It is also good for lowering prolactin. It will take continuous use of vitex for at least 3 months to have much of an effect. It is a relatively safe herb. It does not have to be taken alone unless there are specific reasons to avoid other herbs.
Hope this has shed some light,
waxingmoon
Hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 5:13 AM
waxingmoon: I honestly do not have scientific facts about vitex, I just try pass on whatever info I've learned to others. So since you are pointing this out I will be sure to spread the word that you don't need to take it just alone and try help you get rid of this myth.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 11:21 AM
I *think* there has been feedback from users that vitex didn't seem to work when taken with other herbs. But it's a long time back and I'm not sure if they weren't more like reports of reports and the whole info got spoiled? But maybe not...
Honeydew
(Login honeydew71)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 3:48 PM
Hi girls,
I don't mean to confuse you guys or anything but I want to tell you what happened with me yesterday. I went to my acupuncturist, who is also an herbalist. I was telling him about my program for breast enlargement and I was telling him what I was taking. I had stopped taking the fenugreek and the SP because I was afraid of weight gain, and continued to take everything else (only for about a week or so). I told him about the various ways I read that ladies used for BE. When I spoke about cutting out the fenugreek and the SP, he said that those two are actually very good to take. But here's what surprised me. He asked me if I'd heard of vitex. He said it would be very good to take along with the fenugreek and the SP! I was very surprised as everyone here says not to take it with other herbs. So, I am beginning to take the vitex along with the fenugreek and the SP. Also, I'm taking dandelion to help with the water weight gain that comes along with all this. I will be sitting down with him next Friday to go more into detail about all this and he's going to help me with my program.
I thought maybe y'all would like a little food for thought on this subject. It doesn't mean I'm right, or he is, but I'm going to look more into it.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 5:26 PM
Hopeful, Moon and Honeydew,
Thanks for your responses. You know sometimes information takes a life of its own on this forum and it becomes difficult to determine what the actual facts are. After all we are dealing with a subject that is almost entirely ignored by the standard medical community and research is hard to come by and usually is done for other reasons than NBE. For this reason I think that personal experiences can be insightful and I rank them right up there with research, but I also know it is hard to determine in non-clinical settings just what causes an effect.
I believe that vitex is most useful in combating Estrogen Dominance symptoms. I think that it could also be useful in supporting estrogen/progesterone balance in those who are taking estrogenic herbs, especially the higher potency estrogenic herbs (red clover, PM... etc.).
I must do some research to find out if the common galactogouges promote prolactin or have better action in a prolactin rich environment. If so, then vitex could interfere. That might mean that vitex and the commonly used Wonder Up would not be a good mix. It also might nix the fenugreek, goat's rue mix. I just don't know enough about the method of action of those two herbs to do more than guess. I could also see that vitex could interfere with the Grow Yours program... but again this is just speculation...
So, I am off to research the prolactin needs of various methods and I will let you know what I find. If anyone else wants to look into this, we could all benefit from the findings.
waxingmoon
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 8:20 PM
This site explains the uses of vitex quite nicely in my opinion and gives a good overview.
http://www.susunweed.com/Article_Vitex_RedMoonHerbs.htm
I have been using it to treat my androgen symptoms and it is helping with that too.
Conner
(no login) Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 9 2008, 4:09 PM
Thanks so much waxing moon, Lisa, and Hopeful...I really appreciate the details you gave me.
Lisa - A question. SO you have been using Vitex to treat excess androgen? How is that working for you?
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 9 2008, 9:25 PM
Hello Conner, that is no problem at all, I am glad to help.
I have been using Vitex to balance my hormones since September 07. Only my testosterone levels are too high and out of whack, I had blood work done again around that time to test them and they are still the same as they were during puberty, a bit too high.
I feel it is helping, I found an article saying to combine it with SP or nettle or something. I did this at the start, using Nettle root and taking the recommended 800 mg a day. It has helped in reducing acne to pill taking level and my moods are way better than they generally tend to be with pill (yasmin last), not to mention without anything, which is just not bearable.
I just couldnt be bothered with taking too many pills so I reduced to 400 mg vitex a day and left out the nettle root all together for a few months. It seemed to lose some effectiveness about 6 weeks or so ago and when I went on holiday I took a two week break. Since starting again with 400 mg (and recently vitex) I am still feeling good, it seems to work better again and I think I actually experienced some growth this last week.
My boobs look positively bigger after about 5 days of sore nipples.
Sorry for going on, I should really update my programmes page but just havent had the time so far. I will try and give it a go in the next month or two :-).
Here are another few links that I found stuff on hirsutism and pcos linked to vitex as well.
http://www.indianchild.com/Pregnancy/hirsutism.htm
http://pcoscoach.com/vitex.html
As to the discussion combining it with other herbs, I took vitex alongside my normal routine for four months I believe at the very start and had a good growth period back then. It continued well after as well, but it certainly didnt hinder it.
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 9 2008, 9:47 PM
This is a post I found from myself in an earlier thread re combination of vitex with other herbs.
This is the thread
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...ding+vitex
"I don't think there would be a problem combining it with a BE routine. One of the sites I found said that it is common to combine vitex with SP or licorice for lowering androgen levels and also adding soy or fennel/fenugreek. I think the fennel, soy and fenugreek is more for women who are estrogen dominant, but that doesn't really matter for us I would think. I can't find that site just now but here are two others about vitex that I found quite useful.
This is a link with quite good info about vitex dosages
http://www.uq.edu.au/accmer/education/ps...pquest.pdf
This is a great article about vitex studies and how well it worked.
http://pcoscoach.com/vitex.html
"
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 12 2008, 9:18 AM
I made a search on the vitex with other herbs question and there definitely have been reports from people saying that vitex didn't work so well in combination but they started growing when they dropped other herbs.
amy
(Login firish69) vitex May 12 2008, 12:58 PM
I have been taking vitex for 2 month and feel it helped with my moods(more calm)I don't know what that means though.
anyways,about 3 weeks ago i got brave and started fenugreek and saw palmetto in liquid extract.
Now ,EVERYTIME i use fg i got headaches,feeling ill,tired I don't like the feeling like something is wrong with me,and think it lowered my blood sugar or enhanced a hormone imbalance ,it did something major to the point i stopped.
back to when i added it in while on vitex,no sensation,headache or any symptoms at all
at first i was excited that i could take it with no side effect and asked sumone on board for advice (i think loise) who said vitex was crossing out the effects of the herbs and they wouldn't work.
so i stopped taking the herbs.
today i ran out of vitex,not sure if i will buy more.It did nothing for breast growth and helped my skin out the first few weeks but then i got alot of zitz and still have them.
just thought i would let u girls know that in myexperience vitex canceled out the effects of herbs and rendered them useless.
Conner
(no login) THANK YOU ALL May 13 2008, 4:34 PM
Hello, sorry I have not posted in a few days, but work has been busy, but I just wanted to say thank you again to everyone who responded to my question with information and support. I hope to one day get to the point where you all are, where I can feel comfortable and knowledgable enough about NBE to not only ask questions, but to answer them for myself and others on this forum. All of you are an insperation to me in this regard. Thanks again and best of luck with your growth.
Oh, and lisa, I checked out those links, they were a great help...thanks you for you kindness in posting them for me.
May 7 2008 at 7:57 PM Conner (no login)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all!
Sorry to keep asking questions, but you all have so much knowledge when it comes to this, and I am so new to it. About Vitex, I have read on many posts that it is good for progesterone deficincy and estrogen dominance. But on here also say it balances your hormones in general. So could that mean that it could work as effectivly if you were estrogen deficent, etc. I guess I am asking if it balances you hormone imbalance, whatever that imbalance may be. Thanks for the help!
Author Reply
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 2:27 AM
Hi Conner,
This is vitex as I see it and backed up by the excellent information that is located in the information on herbs section.
Vitex has an effect on the anterior pituitary gland. It will promote the production of progesterone in the body by stimulating the corpus luteum to produce more hormone. It also lowers prolactin. It takes about 3 months to feel the full effects of this herb. Studies have shown that there seems to be no detrimental effect with long term use of vitex.
It does not 'balance' hormones. It only promotes the increase of progesterone and the lowering of prolactin. If this is what you need to 'balance' your hormones then yes, it will do you a lot of good (estrogen dominance/progesterone deficiency, hyper-prolactin states, etc).
If your hormone imbalance involves too much androgen, too little estrogen or.... whatever else... then vitex will not 'balance' your hormones (okay, to be totally factual, the increase of progesterone will in fact activate estrogen receptors and progesterone is used by the body to make estrogen... BUT, it is not a classic treatment for low estrogen)
I do not know why everyone thinks you should never take vitex with any other herbs?? Why?? I can see as how if you are trying to increase prolactin, then you would not want to use it, so that rules out fenugreek and goat's rue, I think, but not other herbs. If anyone has a link to scientific studies that indicate the restriction of vitex or if you can point me to a discussion on this forum that speaks about specific reasons for such a restriction, then I would appreciate it.
So, to summarize. Vitex is good for stimulating the body's production of progesterone (if the woman has intact ovaries and has not gone through menopause). It is also good for lowering prolactin. It will take continuous use of vitex for at least 3 months to have much of an effect. It is a relatively safe herb. It does not have to be taken alone unless there are specific reasons to avoid other herbs.
Hope this has shed some light,
waxingmoon
Hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 5:13 AM
waxingmoon: I honestly do not have scientific facts about vitex, I just try pass on whatever info I've learned to others. So since you are pointing this out I will be sure to spread the word that you don't need to take it just alone and try help you get rid of this myth.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 11:21 AM
I *think* there has been feedback from users that vitex didn't seem to work when taken with other herbs. But it's a long time back and I'm not sure if they weren't more like reports of reports and the whole info got spoiled? But maybe not...
Honeydew
(Login honeydew71)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 3:48 PM
Hi girls,
I don't mean to confuse you guys or anything but I want to tell you what happened with me yesterday. I went to my acupuncturist, who is also an herbalist. I was telling him about my program for breast enlargement and I was telling him what I was taking. I had stopped taking the fenugreek and the SP because I was afraid of weight gain, and continued to take everything else (only for about a week or so). I told him about the various ways I read that ladies used for BE. When I spoke about cutting out the fenugreek and the SP, he said that those two are actually very good to take. But here's what surprised me. He asked me if I'd heard of vitex. He said it would be very good to take along with the fenugreek and the SP! I was very surprised as everyone here says not to take it with other herbs. So, I am beginning to take the vitex along with the fenugreek and the SP. Also, I'm taking dandelion to help with the water weight gain that comes along with all this. I will be sitting down with him next Friday to go more into detail about all this and he's going to help me with my program.
I thought maybe y'all would like a little food for thought on this subject. It doesn't mean I'm right, or he is, but I'm going to look more into it.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 5:26 PM
Hopeful, Moon and Honeydew,
Thanks for your responses. You know sometimes information takes a life of its own on this forum and it becomes difficult to determine what the actual facts are. After all we are dealing with a subject that is almost entirely ignored by the standard medical community and research is hard to come by and usually is done for other reasons than NBE. For this reason I think that personal experiences can be insightful and I rank them right up there with research, but I also know it is hard to determine in non-clinical settings just what causes an effect.
I believe that vitex is most useful in combating Estrogen Dominance symptoms. I think that it could also be useful in supporting estrogen/progesterone balance in those who are taking estrogenic herbs, especially the higher potency estrogenic herbs (red clover, PM... etc.).
I must do some research to find out if the common galactogouges promote prolactin or have better action in a prolactin rich environment. If so, then vitex could interfere. That might mean that vitex and the commonly used Wonder Up would not be a good mix. It also might nix the fenugreek, goat's rue mix. I just don't know enough about the method of action of those two herbs to do more than guess. I could also see that vitex could interfere with the Grow Yours program... but again this is just speculation...
So, I am off to research the prolactin needs of various methods and I will let you know what I find. If anyone else wants to look into this, we could all benefit from the findings.
waxingmoon
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 8 2008, 8:20 PM
This site explains the uses of vitex quite nicely in my opinion and gives a good overview.
http://www.susunweed.com/Article_Vitex_RedMoonHerbs.htm
I have been using it to treat my androgen symptoms and it is helping with that too.
Conner
(no login) Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 9 2008, 4:09 PM
Thanks so much waxing moon, Lisa, and Hopeful...I really appreciate the details you gave me.
Lisa - A question. SO you have been using Vitex to treat excess androgen? How is that working for you?
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 9 2008, 9:25 PM
Hello Conner, that is no problem at all, I am glad to help.
I have been using Vitex to balance my hormones since September 07. Only my testosterone levels are too high and out of whack, I had blood work done again around that time to test them and they are still the same as they were during puberty, a bit too high.
I feel it is helping, I found an article saying to combine it with SP or nettle or something. I did this at the start, using Nettle root and taking the recommended 800 mg a day. It has helped in reducing acne to pill taking level and my moods are way better than they generally tend to be with pill (yasmin last), not to mention without anything, which is just not bearable.
I just couldnt be bothered with taking too many pills so I reduced to 400 mg vitex a day and left out the nettle root all together for a few months. It seemed to lose some effectiveness about 6 weeks or so ago and when I went on holiday I took a two week break. Since starting again with 400 mg (and recently vitex) I am still feeling good, it seems to work better again and I think I actually experienced some growth this last week.
My boobs look positively bigger after about 5 days of sore nipples.
Sorry for going on, I should really update my programmes page but just havent had the time so far. I will try and give it a go in the next month or two :-).
Here are another few links that I found stuff on hirsutism and pcos linked to vitex as well.
http://www.indianchild.com/Pregnancy/hirsutism.htm
http://pcoscoach.com/vitex.html
As to the discussion combining it with other herbs, I took vitex alongside my normal routine for four months I believe at the very start and had a good growth period back then. It continued well after as well, but it certainly didnt hinder it.
Lisa121
(no login) Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 9 2008, 9:47 PM
This is a post I found from myself in an earlier thread re combination of vitex with other herbs.
This is the thread
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...ding+vitex
"I don't think there would be a problem combining it with a BE routine. One of the sites I found said that it is common to combine vitex with SP or licorice for lowering androgen levels and also adding soy or fennel/fenugreek. I think the fennel, soy and fenugreek is more for women who are estrogen dominant, but that doesn't really matter for us I would think. I can't find that site just now but here are two others about vitex that I found quite useful.
This is a link with quite good info about vitex dosages
http://www.uq.edu.au/accmer/education/ps...pquest.pdf
This is a great article about vitex studies and how well it worked.
http://pcoscoach.com/vitex.html
"
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Confused about Vitex, please help... May 12 2008, 9:18 AM
I made a search on the vitex with other herbs question and there definitely have been reports from people saying that vitex didn't work so well in combination but they started growing when they dropped other herbs.
amy
(Login firish69) vitex May 12 2008, 12:58 PM
I have been taking vitex for 2 month and feel it helped with my moods(more calm)I don't know what that means though.
anyways,about 3 weeks ago i got brave and started fenugreek and saw palmetto in liquid extract.
Now ,EVERYTIME i use fg i got headaches,feeling ill,tired I don't like the feeling like something is wrong with me,and think it lowered my blood sugar or enhanced a hormone imbalance ,it did something major to the point i stopped.
back to when i added it in while on vitex,no sensation,headache or any symptoms at all
at first i was excited that i could take it with no side effect and asked sumone on board for advice (i think loise) who said vitex was crossing out the effects of the herbs and they wouldn't work.
so i stopped taking the herbs.
today i ran out of vitex,not sure if i will buy more.It did nothing for breast growth and helped my skin out the first few weeks but then i got alot of zitz and still have them.
just thought i would let u girls know that in myexperience vitex canceled out the effects of herbs and rendered them useless.
Conner
(no login) THANK YOU ALL May 13 2008, 4:34 PM
Hello, sorry I have not posted in a few days, but work has been busy, but I just wanted to say thank you again to everyone who responded to my question with information and support. I hope to one day get to the point where you all are, where I can feel comfortable and knowledgable enough about NBE to not only ask questions, but to answer them for myself and others on this forum. All of you are an insperation to me in this regard. Thanks again and best of luck with your growth.
Oh, and lisa, I checked out those links, they were a great help...thanks you for you kindness in posting them for me.