[GorgeousBlonde]

I have gone from an A to a small B with my natural PM program after about 1 year, but this is such insignificant growth for me. I am dreaming of going to a large C or D. I decided to use a program similar to what transgenders use (male to female) since if it works for a man it must work for me (I'm a women). I need a more powerful program.

So I decided to change my program to a stronger program:
1. Oestrogel Estradiol Topical Gel (from Amazon)
2. Smoky Mountain Naturals Natural Progesterone Cream (from Amazon)
3. Spearmint Leaf Tea Bags (from iherb)
4. Saw Palmetto (from iherb)
5. Neocell Collagen (from iherb)
6. HGH Surge (from iherb)

I am also thinking about getting spironolactone (powerful anti-androgen drug) since I have some androgen symptoms. However, I would have to go to doctor and get prescription so for now I'll try this program.

I also wanted to try Estrofem but for now I am trying Oestrogel Estradiol Topical Gel since it is powerful.

My old program:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=12026

[CancerStrikes2]

I have gone from an A to a small B with my natural PM program after about 1 year, but this is such insignificant growth for me. I am dreaming of going to a large C or D. I decided to use a program similar to what transgenders use (male to female) since if it works for a man it must work for me (I'm a women). I need a more powerful program.

So I decided to change my program to a stronger program:
1. Oestrogel Estradiol Topical Gel (from Amazon)
2. Smoky Mountain Naturals Natural Progesterone Cream (from Amazon)
3. Spearmint Leaf Tea Bags (from iherb)
4. Saw Palmetto (from iherb)
5. Neocell Collagen (from iherb)
6. HGH Surge (from iherb)

I am also thinking about getting spironolactone (powerful anti-androgen drug) since I have some androgen symptoms. However, I would have to go to doctor and get prescription so for now I'll try this program.

I also wanted to try Estrofem but for now I am trying Oestrogel Estradiol Topical Gel since it is powerful.

My old program:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=12026

Just be very careful to use China / Hongkong / Thailand / Mexican products ie your #1 choice. Many times they are cutting corners and lack of Quality Control ISO9001 in place.

Yesterday, I watched the ABC nightly news regarding about herbal stufs, they said a study tests showed many herbal was fill with fillers such as RICE powder than herbals itself.

-V

[LookingForward2NBE]

Fillers are not a bad thing. I love Dr. Oz but this one area he needs to be educated on and he lead to this huge movement against fillers.

1. Fine ground or powered herbs are very if not impossible to run on commercial encapsulator. It causes damage to the pins and excessive pressure.

2. When your blending multiple herbs, you may need an excipient to get blend uniformity. Otherwise, there could be a huge variability between each capsule.

3. Rough herbs don't flow. So you need a lubricating agent to get it to run on equipment.

4. If its a single herb or very low dose extract.. How do you put 25mg in capsule... You can't. You need a bulking agent to fill the capsule to get uniformity.

5. Depending on the dose, it may exceed 1 capsule but enough for 2, yes there are 6 standard capsule sizes but not all manufacturers have all the sizes and even then, you might not be able to neatly fill it. So you need to bulk it up accordingly.

6. You can not partially fill a capsule with quality control as its not possible to do it reliably.

Those are just some of the reason why manufacturers use them.

What ends up happening, manufactures can either:

1. Change the recommended dose to accomodate a capsule or vs. What was traditionally done or researched. Not good IMO. let's say a dose of 2g is proven clinically, but you can only fit 50mg in a size4 capsule, 75mg in a 3, 150mg in 2, 400mg in 1, 600mg in 0, 800mg in 00. U can only use 1 size... What can u do!

If your an honest company: you use size 00 unless your worried of a chock hazard then you would use a 0.

So either you under dose at 2 capsule, 1.6g as the dosage on the bottle

or

YOU use 400mg of an excipient that flows well, doesn't pick up moisture and doesn't draw moisture out of a capsule shell that would make it brittle over time.

These numbers are for illustrative purposes, each ingredient as its own bulk density which effect how much can be put in a given capsule size.

2. Not list excipient and probably not get caught but leads to an issue with compliance and safety as you don't know what's in the product.

[LookingForward2NBE]

Its much easier for media to make an issue out of nothing .

That said, if there is no active and its just an inexpensive filler then yeah that's an issue.

Don't be fooled about country of origin, i know of instance of companies the USA doing the very same thing. China AND India and not as reliable as USA ones but you really need to know the company who you are buying from.

[LookingForward2NBE]

GoodLuck GorgeousBlonde, can't wait to hear how your new program works out for you.

[surferjoe2007]

Estradiol can lead to breast cancer and anti-androgen drugs also have serious side effects. I wouldn't jump into them just yet. If I get the time maybe I can dig up some sources, but here you hear about "I felt faint" or "my period got irregular". Elsewhere you hear "she got cancer" or "his/her normal hormonal function got completely destroyed". Progesterone OTOH isn't that dangerous AFAIK.

Here's your original program: 1000 mg PM 1/4th the time, 6000 mg MSM + vitamin C, small amount of spearmint tea, not sure about deer velvet, insignificant amounts of other herbs and nutrients.

1000 mg of one herb is not the same as 1000 mg of another. For some you need 50 mg and for others 50 grams. I'm a bit amazed that people wil jump straight to 1000 mg PM but are too afraid to use more than 2,000-3,000 mg of anything else even when they are far weaker.

It's not surprising that all estrogen and almost no progesterone would have its limits. I think your new program may work but it's because of the progesterone cream not the other drugs. PM+PC would too and it'd be a lot safer. If you want something extreme here you go:

• Estrogen: 1000+ mg PM. Cycled. Optional (minor but helpful): 1 red clover capsule on non-PM days.
  
• Progesterone: Progesterone cream. Cycled on different days.
  
• Estrogen/progesterone/insulin amplifier: 2500 mg 50% saponin (or 50% fenuside) fenugreek extract. Or sprout 1/4 cup whole seeds. Every day.
  
• Anti-androgen: 320+ mg saw palmetto *extract* (80+% fatty acids) + 2 cups tea from 10 grams (2x heaping teaspoon) dry spearmint (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6376599.stm). That's typically 4 tea bags per cup. SPE to block DHT formation, spearmint to reduce free testosterone. Every day.
  
• Collagen: 6,000 mg MSM. A collagen supplement is actually a big step down. Vitamin C would be nice but a little like a piece of fruit is plenty. Every day.
  
• HGH: 5,000 mg L-arginine. Every day.
  
• Butt: 10 grams maca or 200+ mg 0.6% glucosinolates maca extract. Every day.
  

Greater amounts of PM, PC or FGE have greater effects but can also cause more trouble, while the others don't make as much difference in higher amounts but also don't cause much trouble. For example I'd suggest 1/4th the above FG to start then use more if you feel totally fine.

[GorgeousBlonde]

Thank you so much surferjoe I was looking for feedback, and I really like the program suggestion you gave me. I will finish my tube of estrogen gel and switch to this much safer, but still effective program that you described.

[AbiDrew85]

PLUS PLUS to what surferjoe said.

[GorgeousBlonde]

whats days should I use the Progesterone cream?

[AbiDrew85]

Oh, actually I don't suggest the saw palmetto or L-arginine. Missed that somehow. Though I MIGHT suggest changing up your diet if you're not eating clean. Ditch processed foods, eat a lot more proteins.

And PC would be during luteal, PM during follicular.