[Mako]

I've been taking fenugreek for about a month and a half, but I'm looking to switch to something else because my boyfriend finds it's making me smell spicy- like cinnamon. It's not bad as smells go I suppose, but he finds it overpowering and a bit odd, especially when it comes to having sex.

I'm not sure how much of an effect fenugreek was having really. Does anybody have any recommendations as to what I could replace it with? (if anything?)
I just got some flaxseed, but I don't think it raises prolactin. Does anyone know how best to use ground flax seed?

So far I'm keeping with L-Arginine and GABA to raise HGH, and I've just added 3g of EPO a day.

I've kept up with the FMD massage. I really want this to work! I want boobs!

Thank you!

[isobasic]

Having exactly the same problem! I think goat's rue is meant to have the same effect in terms of prolactin and insulin sensitivity increase, though without the phytoestogenic effect. I'm still researching it myself, though.

[surferjoe2007]

Goat's rue, wild yam and shatavari are all good substitutes. For dry powder up to ~6 grams you can substitute any of the 3 directly. I think GR is about twice as weak and Sv about twice as strong. Dunno about WY but I think it's somewhere around those 3. For more than ~6 grams get an extract of WY or Sv, which is about 1 to 30 times as strong so you use less. The strongest extracts are about half saponins. It takes at least ~2 grams or 1 tsp. whole herb (less of extracts) to do anything at all.

FG is not directly estrogenic. It only increases sensitivity to estrogen and so do all of the above. AFAIK All 3 of the above are pretty close to FG. Ditto for what they do for prolactin and progesterone. Here's a study where a pregnant (and so hormonal) rats got Sv extract that might be equal to a person taking hundreds of grams of raw powder: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16177978 . Their mammaries grew way too fast, became clincally oversized and damaged nearby tissue by occupying its place. Other studies on non-pregnant rats did not have any such effect. Unlike humans other mammals only get mammaries during pregnancy, and I assume most of the related hormones . And both Sv and FG are even often used for (straight human) male potency yet without causing moobs. Sv, FG and GR are also popular for lactation, yet they don't tend to make women who aren't nursing lactate like prolactin does. Again, it only increases sensitivity to what you already have and won't do anything otherwise.

Ground flaxseed tastes good with honey. Optionally you may add ground almond, vanilla and/or shredded coconut. Almonds are good for you too. Flaxseed does not replace any of the above 4 but it can be a minor source of phytoestrogens. It's similar to RC. Either is good in combination with any of the above to increase your sensitivity to it. Unlike the above 4 only a little flax or RC is fine and more won't necessarily do much more. In general if you have at least some estrogen and progesterone the sky's the limit with any of the above 4, but if you are missing either then the above 4 may not be able to do much of anything.

[Mako]

Thank you isobasic! i'll look into Goat's rue.

Thanks for all the info surfer joe. I thought Wild yam didn't actually work (saw that in another thread) but that was about progesterone. Does it raises other hormones? I've never heard of Shatavari- I'll look into it!

I don't know if I'll replace it with anything for now- frankly, I found myself getting a bit burned out on all these things I have to take and keep track of. I don't mind the massage, and I've kept that up very well, but I'd love to keep my pills and potions to a minimum. I also found that estrogenic herbs like red clover exacerbated cellulite- which is NOT something I need! Would applying a tincture to the breasts reduce that risk, or would it end up carrying through the whole body anyway?

[surferjoe2007]

The confusion on WY comes from false claims that it is progesterone. It can be converted synthetically into progesterone, but heck you can chemically make anything out of anything. It doesn't mean it's the same thing anymore. Like the other 3 it can however amplify and balance out all hormones, progesterone included.

If you want to limit what you take, then here is a basic super strong program with only 3 items: PC, PM, ~40% saponin shatavari extract or a WY extract. PM follicular, PC luteal, and Sv all month. The limit on all 3 is only what you can tolerate. A ballpark figure for "a lot" of shatavari extract is about 1,000 mg, but you might use any amount higher or lower than that. For something much weaker and much slower but gentler use ground flax seed instead of PM and use it all month. ~1-3 teaspoon flax and 3 grams (~1.5 tsp) whole herb Sv or WY or GR, which are far weaker than extracts. Maybe a little more if it's GR since it's weaker. Use PC luteal but only a little.

Dunno anything about RC and cellulite but a quick google did find some things if you want to look. You could use ground flaxseed instead though I dunno if it's any different.

[Mako]

Thanks surferjoe!

I happen to have some Wild Yam extract, so I might start taking some orally. do you have any insight on how effective those things are topically? (Wild Yam, PM ?)

[isobasic]

Thanks surferjoe!

I happen to have some Wild Yam extract, so I might start taking some orally. do you have any insight on how effective those things are topically? (Wild Yam, PM ?)

i second this, starting to think that if there's a way of increasing my own hormone production/ ameliorating its effects it may be a better option than just pumping my body temporarily with hormone-like substances

[surferjoe2007]

For WY extract I haven't seen anything stronger than 6% diosgenin (a saponin) and the whole herb is around 1% give or take. So it would take a bit. Probably around 3 grams up to tens of grams, or the equivalent extract (on the lower end to start until you get used to it). For example if it's 4:1 you use 1/4th as much. That's internally. Externally I can't say but I've heard of it being done before so you could gradual increase similar amounts until you get something.

[Maxine]

I've been taking fenugreek for about a month and a half, but I'm looking to switch to something else because my boyfriend finds it's making me smell spicy- like cinnamon. It's not bad as smells go I suppose, but he finds it overpowering and a bit odd, especially when it comes to having sex.

I'm not sure how much of an effect fenugreek was having really. Does anybody have any recommendations as to what I could replace it with? (if anything?)
I just got some flaxseed, but I don't think it raises prolactin. Does anyone know how best to use ground flax seed?

So far I'm keeping with L-Arginine and GABA to raise HGH, and I've just added 3g of EPO a day.

I've kept up with the FMD massage. I really want this to work! I want boobs!

Thank you!

Hi Mako,

I just had to say that I got a good laugh from the "spicy" smell comment

I know a lot of the posts that I see around this and other forums including plastic surgery for breast implants talk about herbal supplements but no one really mentions pueraria mirifica or pueraria lobata.

Have you guys heard of it?

I have always wanted larger breasts my whole life but the idea of having surgery seemed really superficial to me and all my friends knew so when I went to Thailand a friend of mine who was already there turned me onto pueraria mirifica.

It's this "miracle herb" that comes from Thailand and women have been using it years for menopause as an estrogen supplement. Anyway, it engorges and firms your breasts naturally as long as you take the pure extract.

You can research more about it, I know it's more expensive than some herbal supplements but this brand is 100% pure and I get pills for around $25.

My best results are when using the cream and the pills though.

Check it out I hope this helps

Information Page here what is pueraria mirifica

<3 Emily

[Mako]

For WY extract I haven't seen anything stronger than 6% diosgenin (a saponin) and the whole herb is around 1% give or take. So it would take a bit. Probably around 3 grams up to tens of grams, or the equivalent extract (on the lower end to start until you get used to it). For example if it's 4:1 you use 1/4th as much. That's internally. Externally I can't say but I've heard of it being done before so you could gradual increase similar amounts until you get something.

Thanks surferjoe! Do you mean I would have to take around a gram of extract a day?
I couldn't find out much about shatavari regarding breast growth. Will have to dig deeper.