11-01-2016, 21:21
Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008 at 5:17 PM
Woolly Sheep (Login Boobsrock4life)
This is a response to a post I set up, but I wanted to put it here again so most people who might not be able to read that one since it was a little while ago, would read this because of the title.
Moon, The progesterone i was talking about was the natural one, it came in a blue bottle of some sort and was USP micronized. I think you might have the facts mixed a little bit. Natural progesterone and phytoestrogens dont add to your body's hormone levels. Please do a research on this so you can confirm this, as we even studied this in reproduction in my biology class. These hormones bind to the receptops that your body already has that supposedly your own hormones should bind to, once these hormones bind to them, your body's hormones no longer have any more receptops to bind too and prolonged usuage tricks the anterior pituary gland to stop producing this hormones because it thinks your body already has enough. This is also why when women want to use natural hormones they have to use high doses that are enough to atleast have an effect for NBE, which is another reason why most commercial NBE products dont work, the doses are too small, not that the grade of their herbs, or the herbs themselves are not efficient enough. Look at an example of women who have experienced a large amount of growth in this forum, like Eve and Erica and you see most of their regimen consisted of estrogen, If you use progesterone, it is a well know fact it acts as an antagonist against estrogen, so in any case it is like you are telling your body, please grow my boobs with this estrogen am feeding you, and then at the same time you are feeding it something that says, well dont grow my boobs with this hormone am feeding you.
It is very important that people should understand that the main hormone necessary for NBE is estrogen, but unfortunately estrogen alone is not a very good thing because it can lead to mitosis gone bad, and what is mitosis gone bad? Simply cancer, were your body just keeps reproducing cells on and on and well unfortunately to a certain extent that is what we need our body to do for healthy breast tissue growth. Progesterone however is also important for the shape of the breast and the way the breast forms, i.e making sure it goes through all the tanner stages of growth appropraitely. For women who had stunted growth, it is possible that progesterone could help as they include it in hormone therapy and all, also for women who are estrogen dominant, it could help, because it counteracts the effects of the estrogen dominance to a certain extent, hopefully the healthy level to which it brings the estrogen is efficient enough for breast growth.
This said, everyone is different and people react differently to things, but this is what I have learned so far.
Beth
Beth
(Login Boobsrock4life)
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 5:33 PM
http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/progestero...erone_myth
Read this article and read the part where she explains that estrogen dominance is far less common than people who market natural prgesterone will want you to think.
Also we all should know that no matter what we do, our breast size is already genetically determined, that said said, there are several factors that interact with genetics. All am saying is if all the women in both your father and mother' side have been AA or A cups for the past 4 or 5 generations dont expect to be a c cup or a d cup from NBE. Also if you 2% percent body fat dont expect a miracle either.
I dont mean to sound negative as I am in the same shoes with everyone here, trying to get my girls bigger. But I think NBE requires realistic expectations and a content and sound mind.
I am currently 5ft 8inch, 145lbs, waist is 29 inches, hips is 40 inches. underbust is 31.5inches, above bust is 37 inches and at nipple measurement I am 38.5 inches. I am 21 years old, never had kids.
I posted the above information above, so people can at least have a mental picture of me since I have not put up pics yet,(still waiting for a new digital cam).
I will just be content once my boobs and my hips measure the same which is about 1.5 inches. I will like 2 inches to be exact.
Main reason for all these posts is that am just saying ladies, lets focus on one hormone at a time, and from my experience I will say make that estrogen, If it doesnt work out, then try progesteron, if that doesnt work out try mixing both of them, and well if that doesnt work out, we pray to God for his mercy for what we are feeding to our beautiful bodies that he has perfectly created.
Beth
madboobie
(no login)
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 5:57 PM
thank you for your thoughtful post.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 9:06 PM
Hi, I don't know which of my posts you are refering maybe you have mistaken me with someone else? Okay anyway. Firstly, what do you understand under the term 'natural progesterone'? The so called 'natural progesterone' preparations made from WY aren't really progesterone and do not convert to progesterone in the body. This has been mentioned a lot lately, however I would add that while this is true, this doesn't mean that the progesterone like plan hormone doesn't bind to progesterone receptor and elicits a progesteron like activity. I searched the medical archives of Pubmed and Medline for researches on this and was unable to find a yes or no on this question tho.
Your supposition that phytoestrogens don't add to the body's hormone actiuons is also wrong. The body has more receptors than it has hormones - while there slight competition between phytoestrogens and endogenous estrogen, it's small in comparison to the added actions of phytoestrogens. Of course that is only up to a certain dose - the dose that fill most of your receptors, or the dose at which added action still overpowers the competition.
I don't know much about progesterone in NBE, but I read from Waxingmoon that majority of women are estrogen dominant. Maybe that claim is exaggetated, but certainly a share of women have had sucess with vitex/PC. But of course an estrogen targeting routine is still the default and a lot more frequently used one.
I wouldn't wreck my brains with cancer at all. We don't know how, but herbs appear to protect from it. So does BCP, containing actual estradiol. I think your approach is a bit too simplistic. I'm a student of medicine and with my theoretical knowledge of biochemistry I have come to the conclusion that in NBE, it's best to listen to practice and experience. We should try to explain things in theory, but the fact is that the majority of NBE we still have no clue how to even make sense of. The truths are very complex and it seems that in this case practice is more useful, more informative and more insightful.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 9:07 PM
Hi Beth,
You make some interesting points, but they are not completely accurate. I will address them specifically so as to be clear.
You said "Natural progesterone and phytoestrogens dont add to your body's hormone levels."
-Yes as a matter of fact they can. The body is capable of absorbing these substances which can increase the total amount of hormones in the body above the normal point. These hormones can be stored in body fat and remain in the body long term. That is one of the risks involved in the use of supplemental hormones.
You said "These hormones bind to the receptops that your body already has that supposedly your own hormones should bind to, once these hormones bind to them, your body's hormones no longer have any more receptops to bind too and prolonged usuage tricks the anterior pituary gland to stop producing this hormones because it thinks your body already has enough."
----This requires we talk about deficiency versus balance. You will only run out of receptors if you overload the system. Therefore you will only create a sufficiency feedback to the pituitary glad if you overload the receptors. A woman in a deficiency state may never come close to filling all the hormone receptors she has. Also, the body does not care where the hormone came from as long as the hormone is bio-identical - meaning the shape of the molecule is exactly like our own hormones and will do the exact same thing as our hormone.
These hormones won't just stay on the receptors indefinitely - they must be replenished and when the body senses the need for more hormones it will create more. A feedback loop is a constantly monitored and adjusted thing. The gland does not shut down for good, -shut down is a natural part of its cycle. It is always adjusting the amount of hormone it releases.
You said "This is also why when women want to use natural hormones they have to use high doses that are enough to atleast have an effect for NBE..."
---- High dosages are because of lack of absorption of the agent through the intestine and as well as filtration by the liver and kidneys. Taking a hormone by mouth is not a very effective way to use it due to this problem.
You said "Look at an example of women who have experienced a large amount of growth in this forum, like Eve and Erica and you see most of their regimen consisted of estrogen"
---- They took things that were also galactogouges. I have always debated the 'estrogen' theory of NBE. I am not alone in this belief. If you search the forum you will find quite a few well though out posts that say the use of galactogouges are much more likely to promote breast growth.
You said "If you use progesterone, it is a well know fact it acts as an antagonist against estrogen"
-- Not true. Our body makes estrogen out of progesterone. Progesterone is necessary for the activation of estrogen receptors. Progesterone does balance estrogen and prevents the harmful effects of unopposed estrogen - however to call it an estrogen antagonist is not accurate.
Now, I for one will state that no substance should ever be used outside of what is appropriate for health. To use progesterone just for NBE is wrong. It is however very important to understand that without hormonal balance there will be no NBE and also there will be no health.
Those of you out there who are pushing the estrogen... BEWARE. NBE is not about shoving a bunch of estrogen like substances into your body. Research all the posts about galactogogues. Understand that the Grow Yours successes were not about estrogen. Look at the examples of those who have just used massage and 'chicken feet soup' to gain their growth.
NOBODY has this all figured out. It varies from person to person.
Beth, I agree with you about one thing - Progesterone use outside of what is needed for hormone balance is not a good thing. However- estrogen use is far more potentially dangerous. There have been several women who have made themselves sick with too much phytoestrogen use.
Be healthy, all of you,
waxingmoon
Beth
(Login Boobsrock4life)
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 10:41 PM
Thanks for your responses, moon and waxingmoon. The whole idea of me putting that information up is not for people to critize it, is for people to take it, do their own research and come to their own conclusion. From my own research, everything I posted up there is accurate, however, we know there are a lot of conflicting information available so I am not going to go as far as to say that anybody's information is correct or wrong, as I think that is just rude. I would not purposely post information that I have not researched up on this post, because I know that a lot of people read these informations and make decisions on them. I started this post for a reason and I know some people were going to have some oppositions, but my point here is not to prove that I am wrong or right, or prove my opinion to anyone, as adults we can do these for ourselves. My main goal is to inform me of progesterone and its effects on NBE. Some things moon or waxingmoon said about proj not been an antagonist and all, am not even going to get into that at all, as it is even on wikipedia that proj acts against the effect of estrogen.
All in all, even when you go to church the pastor gives you his information about his interpretation of God and the concept of religion and then its then up to u to figure out what you believe and what works for you. This is the same way that we as educated human beings should use any information we are presented with, we should not just jump up into it and try to make connections, no, we should research it and then draw our own conclusions. And to Moon, who said she was a medical student, I studied biology at UCLA and I just graduated last year, I am starting my masters in august of this year, my boyfriend is an orthopedic surgeon in the Navy. So in a way if we want to start giving our opinions based on our associations or years in the medical field, I think I can give one also that is what listening to.
But let me say this, based on medical science, NBE is not possible for most of us doing it here, (Am making the assumption that we are mostly above 21 year). In medical science, except we did not suffer some kind of late PMS taking herbs to increase breast size is something that is not regarded highly in the medical field, well, you been in the medical field, should ofcourse know this.
My point is this, everyone please feel free to post ur opinions and experiences, but dont critize anyone else's opinion. Since we are all here from the same thing and most likely all our posts are based on different research and different opinions. I mean it is impossible that we all agree with the same thing, or the same thing works for all of us, even a topic as controversial and well-renowed as global warming does not even get the same response from all scientists that are polled about its effects on planet earth, then talkless on NBE. But at the same time lets just responsive to others.
Thanks all.
Beth
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 6 2008, 2:02 PM
Beth,
I am not criticizing your opinion - I am debating science. You are accurate up to a point, just as I am. I welcome the debate about these things. The scientific data on NBE is absolutely lacking. The best we can do is make educated guesses about studies done for completely different reasons.
This is why I will continue to interject my knowledge and debate the information that other people post. There is no complete picture without this kind of discussion.
I welcome your input - but I don't hold anyones scientific knowledge or opinion as untouchable.
I will however always hold you and others in the highest esteem. I will never make a personal criticism toward anyone. I am glad to have you with your scientific background and your connections to others with medical knowledge. I always love to read posts that reflect scientific grounding.
But -- I am gonna be a 'pill' about information and I am going to questions facts as you state them.
In this way I hope the discussions we have will help to educate those who do not have scientific backgrounds and to enrich the overall knowledge of NBE.
I look forward to our further discussions,
waxingmoon
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 6 2008, 3:14 PM
I hold the same opinion as Waxingmoon on discussion. Science isn't philosophy, it isn't relative or subjective, which means we can't have opposite opinions and still all be right. So critical evaluation of information is very much necessary and the only right way to discuss science and NBE. Also this isn't a competition on who has more education, I just mentioned my field of study to ilustrate how the theory of human organism is incredibly complex and that makes it very hard to come up with an accurate model, hence any sort of generalized claims will most likely be wrong.
Now that this is settled, there is one claim that I strongly disagree with - that based on medical science, NBE is not possible for most of us doing it here, or that it would be possible only up to a certain age. I don't have a poll or research to conform it, but from my personal gathering of empyrical information on this forum, there is no percievable decline in NBE sucess with age up to at least the 5th decade, in fact I have the impression that women who have had children actually have a higher sucess rate. On the other hand, I'm 22 and I'm one of the thoguhest and least responsive NBE cases arround here. Secondly, there is no research in medical science on NBE, hence medical science can't make any other claim on it than ''it is not certain, it is not proved...'' But that says absolutely nothing, cause that sth is not proved doesn't mean it's disproved. It is true tho that many doctors use the ''there is no proof'' argument almost as a proof that sth is impossible, mostly to support their own personal subjective, overly confident and thus not very professional opinions.
But the most important argument for my opinion is this - the 'plan' for breast growth, the sequence of metabolic reactions and processes that lead to it is in every healthy organism's functional potential, in every healthy organism's genes. Thus I think that the oposite would actually be more accurate - that practically every woman has the theoretical possibility to grow breasts. The limiting factor is whether we can manage create the changes which are necessary to activate that plan.
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Feb 6, 2008 3:16 PM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 6 2008, 8:44 PM
I think it's good that we can actually debate these things and I'm glad that Moon and Waxingmoon have responded so we can get to the bottom of what's going on here. All three of you know much more about it than I do but we all have to be careful with this site that we are either definitely referring to well conducted research (which there isn't much of unless it related to other areas of the body like prostate) or that we make it clear we are giving only an opinion as a lot of the newbies look at things like this and take it as gospel.
Thanks Beth for bringing this up and Moon and Waxingmoon for adding to it. I personally have looked at Wild Yam for progesterone but nearly everything I read that wasn't selling Wild Yam products agree that it is not converted to progesterone in the body and is unlikely to have a progesteronic effect. You can grow on Wild Yam if you're taking other herbs but only because it's the other stuff working - save your money girls!
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 7 2008, 2:22 AM
Three cheers for the analytical ladies!!!
February 5 2008 at 5:17 PM
Woolly Sheep (Login Boobsrock4life)
This is a response to a post I set up, but I wanted to put it here again so most people who might not be able to read that one since it was a little while ago, would read this because of the title.
Moon, The progesterone i was talking about was the natural one, it came in a blue bottle of some sort and was USP micronized. I think you might have the facts mixed a little bit. Natural progesterone and phytoestrogens dont add to your body's hormone levels. Please do a research on this so you can confirm this, as we even studied this in reproduction in my biology class. These hormones bind to the receptops that your body already has that supposedly your own hormones should bind to, once these hormones bind to them, your body's hormones no longer have any more receptops to bind too and prolonged usuage tricks the anterior pituary gland to stop producing this hormones because it thinks your body already has enough. This is also why when women want to use natural hormones they have to use high doses that are enough to atleast have an effect for NBE, which is another reason why most commercial NBE products dont work, the doses are too small, not that the grade of their herbs, or the herbs themselves are not efficient enough. Look at an example of women who have experienced a large amount of growth in this forum, like Eve and Erica and you see most of their regimen consisted of estrogen, If you use progesterone, it is a well know fact it acts as an antagonist against estrogen, so in any case it is like you are telling your body, please grow my boobs with this estrogen am feeding you, and then at the same time you are feeding it something that says, well dont grow my boobs with this hormone am feeding you.
It is very important that people should understand that the main hormone necessary for NBE is estrogen, but unfortunately estrogen alone is not a very good thing because it can lead to mitosis gone bad, and what is mitosis gone bad? Simply cancer, were your body just keeps reproducing cells on and on and well unfortunately to a certain extent that is what we need our body to do for healthy breast tissue growth. Progesterone however is also important for the shape of the breast and the way the breast forms, i.e making sure it goes through all the tanner stages of growth appropraitely. For women who had stunted growth, it is possible that progesterone could help as they include it in hormone therapy and all, also for women who are estrogen dominant, it could help, because it counteracts the effects of the estrogen dominance to a certain extent, hopefully the healthy level to which it brings the estrogen is efficient enough for breast growth.
This said, everyone is different and people react differently to things, but this is what I have learned so far.
Beth
Beth
(Login Boobsrock4life)
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 5:33 PM
http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/progestero...erone_myth
Read this article and read the part where she explains that estrogen dominance is far less common than people who market natural prgesterone will want you to think.
Also we all should know that no matter what we do, our breast size is already genetically determined, that said said, there are several factors that interact with genetics. All am saying is if all the women in both your father and mother' side have been AA or A cups for the past 4 or 5 generations dont expect to be a c cup or a d cup from NBE. Also if you 2% percent body fat dont expect a miracle either.
I dont mean to sound negative as I am in the same shoes with everyone here, trying to get my girls bigger. But I think NBE requires realistic expectations and a content and sound mind.
I am currently 5ft 8inch, 145lbs, waist is 29 inches, hips is 40 inches. underbust is 31.5inches, above bust is 37 inches and at nipple measurement I am 38.5 inches. I am 21 years old, never had kids.
I posted the above information above, so people can at least have a mental picture of me since I have not put up pics yet,(still waiting for a new digital cam).
I will just be content once my boobs and my hips measure the same which is about 1.5 inches. I will like 2 inches to be exact.
Main reason for all these posts is that am just saying ladies, lets focus on one hormone at a time, and from my experience I will say make that estrogen, If it doesnt work out, then try progesteron, if that doesnt work out try mixing both of them, and well if that doesnt work out, we pray to God for his mercy for what we are feeding to our beautiful bodies that he has perfectly created.
Beth
madboobie
(no login)
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 5:57 PM
thank you for your thoughtful post.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 9:06 PM
Hi, I don't know which of my posts you are refering maybe you have mistaken me with someone else? Okay anyway. Firstly, what do you understand under the term 'natural progesterone'? The so called 'natural progesterone' preparations made from WY aren't really progesterone and do not convert to progesterone in the body. This has been mentioned a lot lately, however I would add that while this is true, this doesn't mean that the progesterone like plan hormone doesn't bind to progesterone receptor and elicits a progesteron like activity. I searched the medical archives of Pubmed and Medline for researches on this and was unable to find a yes or no on this question tho.
Your supposition that phytoestrogens don't add to the body's hormone actiuons is also wrong. The body has more receptors than it has hormones - while there slight competition between phytoestrogens and endogenous estrogen, it's small in comparison to the added actions of phytoestrogens. Of course that is only up to a certain dose - the dose that fill most of your receptors, or the dose at which added action still overpowers the competition.
I don't know much about progesterone in NBE, but I read from Waxingmoon that majority of women are estrogen dominant. Maybe that claim is exaggetated, but certainly a share of women have had sucess with vitex/PC. But of course an estrogen targeting routine is still the default and a lot more frequently used one.
I wouldn't wreck my brains with cancer at all. We don't know how, but herbs appear to protect from it. So does BCP, containing actual estradiol. I think your approach is a bit too simplistic. I'm a student of medicine and with my theoretical knowledge of biochemistry I have come to the conclusion that in NBE, it's best to listen to practice and experience. We should try to explain things in theory, but the fact is that the majority of NBE we still have no clue how to even make sense of. The truths are very complex and it seems that in this case practice is more useful, more informative and more insightful.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 9:07 PM
Hi Beth,
You make some interesting points, but they are not completely accurate. I will address them specifically so as to be clear.
You said "Natural progesterone and phytoestrogens dont add to your body's hormone levels."
-Yes as a matter of fact they can. The body is capable of absorbing these substances which can increase the total amount of hormones in the body above the normal point. These hormones can be stored in body fat and remain in the body long term. That is one of the risks involved in the use of supplemental hormones.
You said "These hormones bind to the receptops that your body already has that supposedly your own hormones should bind to, once these hormones bind to them, your body's hormones no longer have any more receptops to bind too and prolonged usuage tricks the anterior pituary gland to stop producing this hormones because it thinks your body already has enough."
----This requires we talk about deficiency versus balance. You will only run out of receptors if you overload the system. Therefore you will only create a sufficiency feedback to the pituitary glad if you overload the receptors. A woman in a deficiency state may never come close to filling all the hormone receptors she has. Also, the body does not care where the hormone came from as long as the hormone is bio-identical - meaning the shape of the molecule is exactly like our own hormones and will do the exact same thing as our hormone.
These hormones won't just stay on the receptors indefinitely - they must be replenished and when the body senses the need for more hormones it will create more. A feedback loop is a constantly monitored and adjusted thing. The gland does not shut down for good, -shut down is a natural part of its cycle. It is always adjusting the amount of hormone it releases.
You said "This is also why when women want to use natural hormones they have to use high doses that are enough to atleast have an effect for NBE..."
---- High dosages are because of lack of absorption of the agent through the intestine and as well as filtration by the liver and kidneys. Taking a hormone by mouth is not a very effective way to use it due to this problem.
You said "Look at an example of women who have experienced a large amount of growth in this forum, like Eve and Erica and you see most of their regimen consisted of estrogen"
---- They took things that were also galactogouges. I have always debated the 'estrogen' theory of NBE. I am not alone in this belief. If you search the forum you will find quite a few well though out posts that say the use of galactogouges are much more likely to promote breast growth.
You said "If you use progesterone, it is a well know fact it acts as an antagonist against estrogen"
-- Not true. Our body makes estrogen out of progesterone. Progesterone is necessary for the activation of estrogen receptors. Progesterone does balance estrogen and prevents the harmful effects of unopposed estrogen - however to call it an estrogen antagonist is not accurate.
Now, I for one will state that no substance should ever be used outside of what is appropriate for health. To use progesterone just for NBE is wrong. It is however very important to understand that without hormonal balance there will be no NBE and also there will be no health.
Those of you out there who are pushing the estrogen... BEWARE. NBE is not about shoving a bunch of estrogen like substances into your body. Research all the posts about galactogogues. Understand that the Grow Yours successes were not about estrogen. Look at the examples of those who have just used massage and 'chicken feet soup' to gain their growth.
NOBODY has this all figured out. It varies from person to person.
Beth, I agree with you about one thing - Progesterone use outside of what is needed for hormone balance is not a good thing. However- estrogen use is far more potentially dangerous. There have been several women who have made themselves sick with too much phytoestrogen use.
Be healthy, all of you,
waxingmoon
Beth
(Login Boobsrock4life)
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 5 2008, 10:41 PM
Thanks for your responses, moon and waxingmoon. The whole idea of me putting that information up is not for people to critize it, is for people to take it, do their own research and come to their own conclusion. From my own research, everything I posted up there is accurate, however, we know there are a lot of conflicting information available so I am not going to go as far as to say that anybody's information is correct or wrong, as I think that is just rude. I would not purposely post information that I have not researched up on this post, because I know that a lot of people read these informations and make decisions on them. I started this post for a reason and I know some people were going to have some oppositions, but my point here is not to prove that I am wrong or right, or prove my opinion to anyone, as adults we can do these for ourselves. My main goal is to inform me of progesterone and its effects on NBE. Some things moon or waxingmoon said about proj not been an antagonist and all, am not even going to get into that at all, as it is even on wikipedia that proj acts against the effect of estrogen.
All in all, even when you go to church the pastor gives you his information about his interpretation of God and the concept of religion and then its then up to u to figure out what you believe and what works for you. This is the same way that we as educated human beings should use any information we are presented with, we should not just jump up into it and try to make connections, no, we should research it and then draw our own conclusions. And to Moon, who said she was a medical student, I studied biology at UCLA and I just graduated last year, I am starting my masters in august of this year, my boyfriend is an orthopedic surgeon in the Navy. So in a way if we want to start giving our opinions based on our associations or years in the medical field, I think I can give one also that is what listening to.
But let me say this, based on medical science, NBE is not possible for most of us doing it here, (Am making the assumption that we are mostly above 21 year). In medical science, except we did not suffer some kind of late PMS taking herbs to increase breast size is something that is not regarded highly in the medical field, well, you been in the medical field, should ofcourse know this.
My point is this, everyone please feel free to post ur opinions and experiences, but dont critize anyone else's opinion. Since we are all here from the same thing and most likely all our posts are based on different research and different opinions. I mean it is impossible that we all agree with the same thing, or the same thing works for all of us, even a topic as controversial and well-renowed as global warming does not even get the same response from all scientists that are polled about its effects on planet earth, then talkless on NBE. But at the same time lets just responsive to others.
Thanks all.
Beth
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 6 2008, 2:02 PM
Beth,
I am not criticizing your opinion - I am debating science. You are accurate up to a point, just as I am. I welcome the debate about these things. The scientific data on NBE is absolutely lacking. The best we can do is make educated guesses about studies done for completely different reasons.
This is why I will continue to interject my knowledge and debate the information that other people post. There is no complete picture without this kind of discussion.
I welcome your input - but I don't hold anyones scientific knowledge or opinion as untouchable.
I will however always hold you and others in the highest esteem. I will never make a personal criticism toward anyone. I am glad to have you with your scientific background and your connections to others with medical knowledge. I always love to read posts that reflect scientific grounding.
But -- I am gonna be a 'pill' about information and I am going to questions facts as you state them.
In this way I hope the discussions we have will help to educate those who do not have scientific backgrounds and to enrich the overall knowledge of NBE.
I look forward to our further discussions,
waxingmoon
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 6 2008, 3:14 PM
I hold the same opinion as Waxingmoon on discussion. Science isn't philosophy, it isn't relative or subjective, which means we can't have opposite opinions and still all be right. So critical evaluation of information is very much necessary and the only right way to discuss science and NBE. Also this isn't a competition on who has more education, I just mentioned my field of study to ilustrate how the theory of human organism is incredibly complex and that makes it very hard to come up with an accurate model, hence any sort of generalized claims will most likely be wrong.
Now that this is settled, there is one claim that I strongly disagree with - that based on medical science, NBE is not possible for most of us doing it here, or that it would be possible only up to a certain age. I don't have a poll or research to conform it, but from my personal gathering of empyrical information on this forum, there is no percievable decline in NBE sucess with age up to at least the 5th decade, in fact I have the impression that women who have had children actually have a higher sucess rate. On the other hand, I'm 22 and I'm one of the thoguhest and least responsive NBE cases arround here. Secondly, there is no research in medical science on NBE, hence medical science can't make any other claim on it than ''it is not certain, it is not proved...'' But that says absolutely nothing, cause that sth is not proved doesn't mean it's disproved. It is true tho that many doctors use the ''there is no proof'' argument almost as a proof that sth is impossible, mostly to support their own personal subjective, overly confident and thus not very professional opinions.
But the most important argument for my opinion is this - the 'plan' for breast growth, the sequence of metabolic reactions and processes that lead to it is in every healthy organism's functional potential, in every healthy organism's genes. Thus I think that the oposite would actually be more accurate - that practically every woman has the theoretical possibility to grow breasts. The limiting factor is whether we can manage create the changes which are necessary to activate that plan.
This message has been edited by -Moon- on Feb 6, 2008 3:16 PM
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 6 2008, 8:44 PM
I think it's good that we can actually debate these things and I'm glad that Moon and Waxingmoon have responded so we can get to the bottom of what's going on here. All three of you know much more about it than I do but we all have to be careful with this site that we are either definitely referring to well conducted research (which there isn't much of unless it related to other areas of the body like prostate) or that we make it clear we are giving only an opinion as a lot of the newbies look at things like this and take it as gospel.
Thanks Beth for bringing this up and Moon and Waxingmoon for adding to it. I personally have looked at Wild Yam for progesterone but nearly everything I read that wasn't selling Wild Yam products agree that it is not converted to progesterone in the body and is unlikely to have a progesteronic effect. You can grow on Wild Yam if you're taking other herbs but only because it's the other stuff working - save your money girls!
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Pls dont be decieved, progesterone is not good for NBE
February 7 2008, 2:22 AM
Three cheers for the analytical ladies!!!