30-04-2016, 10:39
I was looking at the latest research on plant-derived and plant-based androgen receptor antagonists (AR antagonist) and made a very cool discovery, another sadly disappointing one, and finally, a confirmation of good news about the cool discovery in relation to the disappointment about DIM.
First, the cool discovery:
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/1/453.full
Angelica gigas contains decursin and similar compounds. Decursin and its isomers, metabolites, and so on have been discovered to be extremely potent AR antagonists as mentioned in the thread subject line and as detailed in the above study. They are about 5 times more potent than DIM and are even more potent than the synthetic pharmaceutical drug bicalutamide, which was the previous generation of synthetic drugs used for this purpose. I suspect it was the discovery of these substances that led to the development of the current generation drug enzalutamide, because whereas DIM was comparable to bicalutamide, decursin is comparable to enzalutamide in potency.
Now for a little disappointment:
http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content...1.full.pdf
As mentioned in the thread subject line and detailed in the above study, diindolylmethane, also known as DIM and marketed as the latter in supplements, has been shown to be anti-estrogenic. While the study was hyper-focused upon cancer research, careful reading of the study reveals that DIM does the exact same thing on ER-beta (the booby growth estrogen receptor) as it does on androgen receptors...
In light of this discovery about DIM I did a little further snooping on decursin, and found this:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/bcr1790.pdf
Decursin ALSO exhibits anti-breast cancer properties, but instead of inhibiting ER-beta, it only inhibits ER-alpha and actually serves to increase the number of ER-beta receptor sites. ER-alpha is more highly prone to cancer and inflammation and doesn't do as well at feminizing as ER-beta, so the net effect of decursin on estrogen is estrogenic, NOT anti-estrogenic like DIM.
For supplements that contain angelica gigas I have found only two different brands that carry the same formulation, the formulation being trademarked EstroG-100:
Doctor's Best EstroG-100: http://www.drbvitamins.com/products/estr...c1l5M.dpbs
NOW Foods Herbal Pause with EstroG-100: http://www.nowfoods.com/Herbal-Pause-wit...psules.htm
You may have noticed that the NOW brand contains exactly half as much EstroG-100 per capsule, but has twice as many capsules per bottle. It's still the exact same product, it's just been packaged differently.
NOW didn't mention the numbers for each herb in the formula, but Doctor's Best did, there's 180mg angelica gigas and 167mg each of the other two herbs.
When I researched the other two herbs, only phlomis umbrosa had any additional effect on NBE, it contains estrogenic compound(s) similar to PM and others in the way it is estrogenic, meaning, it binds to estrogen receptors and has some degree of estrogenic response. The information I found on it is interesting, but that's for another thread if I discuss it at all, for now I'll just say that it should not have too much of an impact good or bad in the presence of other estrogens. If you are low on estrogen, it will be beneficial, otherwise, it'll have minimal impact.
Soooooooo... if you're looking for an AR-antagonist as part of your program, I would greatly recommend skipping the DIM and giving either of the two EstroG-100 products a try. I know I'm considering it now for if I can ever really start back up again.
First, the cool discovery:
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/1/453.full
Angelica gigas contains decursin and similar compounds. Decursin and its isomers, metabolites, and so on have been discovered to be extremely potent AR antagonists as mentioned in the thread subject line and as detailed in the above study. They are about 5 times more potent than DIM and are even more potent than the synthetic pharmaceutical drug bicalutamide, which was the previous generation of synthetic drugs used for this purpose. I suspect it was the discovery of these substances that led to the development of the current generation drug enzalutamide, because whereas DIM was comparable to bicalutamide, decursin is comparable to enzalutamide in potency.
Now for a little disappointment:
http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content...1.full.pdf
As mentioned in the thread subject line and detailed in the above study, diindolylmethane, also known as DIM and marketed as the latter in supplements, has been shown to be anti-estrogenic. While the study was hyper-focused upon cancer research, careful reading of the study reveals that DIM does the exact same thing on ER-beta (the booby growth estrogen receptor) as it does on androgen receptors...
In light of this discovery about DIM I did a little further snooping on decursin, and found this:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/bcr1790.pdf
Decursin ALSO exhibits anti-breast cancer properties, but instead of inhibiting ER-beta, it only inhibits ER-alpha and actually serves to increase the number of ER-beta receptor sites. ER-alpha is more highly prone to cancer and inflammation and doesn't do as well at feminizing as ER-beta, so the net effect of decursin on estrogen is estrogenic, NOT anti-estrogenic like DIM.
For supplements that contain angelica gigas I have found only two different brands that carry the same formulation, the formulation being trademarked EstroG-100:
Doctor's Best EstroG-100: http://www.drbvitamins.com/products/estr...c1l5M.dpbs
NOW Foods Herbal Pause with EstroG-100: http://www.nowfoods.com/Herbal-Pause-wit...psules.htm
You may have noticed that the NOW brand contains exactly half as much EstroG-100 per capsule, but has twice as many capsules per bottle. It's still the exact same product, it's just been packaged differently.
NOW didn't mention the numbers for each herb in the formula, but Doctor's Best did, there's 180mg angelica gigas and 167mg each of the other two herbs.
When I researched the other two herbs, only phlomis umbrosa had any additional effect on NBE, it contains estrogenic compound(s) similar to PM and others in the way it is estrogenic, meaning, it binds to estrogen receptors and has some degree of estrogenic response. The information I found on it is interesting, but that's for another thread if I discuss it at all, for now I'll just say that it should not have too much of an impact good or bad in the presence of other estrogens. If you are low on estrogen, it will be beneficial, otherwise, it'll have minimal impact.
Soooooooo... if you're looking for an AR-antagonist as part of your program, I would greatly recommend skipping the DIM and giving either of the two EstroG-100 products a try. I know I'm considering it now for if I can ever really start back up again.
