[NaturalLady31]

Just curious about what you all think about results from herbs-based/massage programs (no pumping)..  Does this give permanent results if the program is kept up for several months after your goal is achieved? Or do you have to keep taking herbs forever to keep the results?? All my research is yielding conflicting info about this. Some articles say that herbs only cause temporary swelling that will always just deflate after stopping the regimen.  

Can any of you give testimony to having permanent results from herbs?

[EllaC]

Just curious about what you all think about results from herbs-based/massage programs (no pumping)..  Does this give permanent results if the program is kept up for several months after your goal is achieved? Or do you have to keep taking herbs forever to keep the results?? All my research is yielding conflicting info about this. Some articles say that herbs only cause temporary swelling that will always just deflate after stopping the regimen.  

Can any of you give testimony to having permanent results from herbs?

My personal experience was a boost when starting herbs. My guess was prolactin giving them a little wake up call. But then no matter what i took it always went away with herbals. If you look at the likes of Greenbush they have early to long term testimonies and alot seemed to keep their gains but with that said whos to say it took that long for them to gain and then it went away once they stopped! They are hardly going to post up "those" testimonials are they..

I personally think if you are lucky enough to find the right herbs to correct an inbalance you had you could genuinely grow due to filling whatever was missing but i know its alot more compliacted than that for most of us.

[NaturalLady31]

Just curious about what you all think about results from herbs-based/massage programs (no pumping)..  Does this give permanent results if the program is kept up for several months after your goal is achieved? Or do you have to keep taking herbs forever to keep the results?? All my research is yielding conflicting info about this. Some articles say that herbs only cause temporary swelling that will always just deflate after stopping the regimen.  

Can any of you give testimony to having permanent results from herbs?

My personal experience was a boost when starting herbs. My guess was prolactin giving them a little wake up call. But then no matter what i took it always went away with herbals. If you look at the likes of Greenbush they have early to long term testimonies and alot seemed to keep their gains but with that said whos to say it took that long for them to gain and then it went away once they stopped! They are hardly going to post up "those" testimonials are they..

I personally think if you are lucky enough to find the right herbs to correct an inbalance you had you could genuinely grow due to filling whatever was missing but i know its alot more compliacted than that for most of us.

Hi there, Ella! I hope it is possible to gain permanently with herbs because I definitely have had a tendency toward androgen-excess, and always have since my early teens. I wonder sometimes if that isn't part of the reason why I've always been on the flat side (B cup, I think.. To be honest, I"m not really sure how much starting tissue I have to work with because sizes vary sooo much among different bra brands). So I'm working currently on getting a digestive issue healed and I've started on spearmint tea 2x a day. Also looking at adding in white peony for extra aromatase promoting.

I guess I'm kind of torn on what to believe.. I know that herbs can create false growth in some cases, and of course I agree that it's all marketing tactics on most sites selling these potions. But at the same time, herbs have been used for thousands of years for so many different purposes.. and they can be very powerful. If certain ones cause estrogenic/androgen-blocking effects in the body and consequently cause the growth of new breast tissue, it just seems like it would be plausable to keep gains if they're sustained long enough for the body to recognize that as the "new norm".

But since I'm a relative newcomer to this NBE stuff, I could be TOTALLY wrong! That's why I'm curious about what you experts on here have to say about permanence. I'll be ready to embark on a real program hopefully within the several months or so and I wanted to research as much as possible.

[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[bettie32]

That is a great question NaturalLady31. So many of us would like to know too.

I think it could depend on maybe the type of herb, the dose, the period of time one takes it...many members seem to take maintenance doses (lower doses and less frequently) to keep the growth, other members say they lost some growth, not all after quitting. I've always thought that the growth from herbs is temporary. Once you quit, no more phytoestrogens so buh bye gains but I also think (and have read) that glandular growth is...glandular growth. It shouldn't vanish into thin air. When we develop our glands as adolescents, with hormones all over the place, the glands don't just suddenly disappear once puberty ends after all.....it seems there are all sorts of opinions on this matter. Here's a thread about PM (pueraria mirifica) to confuse you even more   : 

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19705

Regarding your androgen situation, have to gotten any tests done? I also took spearmint to lower my androgens (also tried licorice and pumpkin seeds...). Currently I'm taking low dose hops and cycling it. Hops is a phytoestrogen but it's sort of also an anti-androgen. Yes, white peony sounds like a good idea if you want a pro-aromatase. Just make sure it's the right kind! There are different varieties and I discovered recently that it seems they work differently. The right one for NBE I believe is called Bai Shao (Paeonia Lactiflora). For some reason this hasn't really been mentioned on the forum. I'm very interested to read about your program!

[EllaC]

Just curious about what you all think about results from herbs-based/massage programs (no pumping)..  Does this give permanent results if the program is kept up for several months after your goal is achieved? Or do you have to keep taking herbs forever to keep the results?? All my research is yielding conflicting info about this. Some articles say that herbs only cause temporary swelling that will always just deflate after stopping the regimen.  

Can any of you give testimony to having permanent results from herbs?

My personal experience was a boost when starting herbs. My guess was prolactin giving them a little wake up call. But then no matter what i took it always went away with herbals. If you look at the likes of Greenbush they have early to long term testimonies and alot seemed to keep their gains but with that said whos to say it took that long for them to gain and then it went away once they stopped! They are hardly going to post up "those" testimonials are they..

I personally think if you are lucky enough to find the right herbs to correct an inbalance you had you could genuinely grow due to filling whatever was missing but i know its alot more compliacted than that for most of us.

Hi there, Ella! I hope it is possible to gain permanently with herbs because I definitely have had a tendency toward androgen-excess, and always have since my early teens. I wonder sometimes if that isn't part of the reason why I've always been on the flat side (B cup, I think.. To be honest, I"m not really sure how much starting tissue I have to work with because sizes vary sooo much among different bra brands). So I'm working currently on getting a digestive issue healed and I've started on spearmint tea 2x a day. Also looking at adding in white peony for extra aromatase promoting.

I guess I'm kind of torn on what to believe.. I know that herbs can create false growth in some cases, and of course I agree that it's all marketing tactics on most sites selling these potions. But at the same time, herbs have been used for thousands of years for so many different purposes.. and they can be very powerful. If certain ones cause estrogenic/androgen-blocking effects in the body and consequently cause the growth of new breast tissue, it just seems like it would be plausable to keep gains if they're sustained long enough for the body to recognize that as the "new norm".

But since I'm a relative newcomer to this NBE stuff, I could be TOTALLY wrong! That's why I'm curious about what you experts on here have to say about permanence. I'll be  ready to embark on a real program hopefully within the several months or so and I wanted to research as much as possible.
 
Save

Yes well if you can dampen those excess andogens then def im.sure the right herbs will help. Ive always wondered why there arent any natural herbalists who specialise in nbe!  There would be extensive hormone testing involved but would help so mamy women

[NaturalLady31]

That is a great question NaturalLady31. So many of us would like to know too.

I think it could depend on maybe the type of herb, the dose, the period of time one takes it...many members seem to take maintenance doses (lower doses and less frequently) to keep the growth, other members say they lost some growth, not all after quitting. I've always thought that the growth from herbs is temporary. Once you quit, no more phytoestrogens so buh bye gains but I also think (and have read) that glandular growth is...glandular growth. It shouldn't vanish into thin air. When we develop our glands as adolescents, with hormones all over the place, the glands don't just suddenly disappear once puberty ends after all.....it seems there are all sorts of opinions on this matter. Here's a thread about PM (pueraria mirifica) to confuse you even more   : 

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19705

Regarding your androgen situation, have to gotten any tests done? I also took spearmint to lower my androgens (also tried licorice and pumpkin seeds...). Currently I'm taking low dose hops and cycling it. Hops is a phytoestrogen but it's sort of also an anti-androgen. Yes, white peony sounds like a good idea if you want a pro-aromatase. Just make sure it's the right kind! There are different varieties and I discovered recently that it seems they work differently. The right one for NBE I believe is called Bai Shao (Paeonia Lactiflora). For some reason this hasn't really been mentioned on the forum. I'm very interested to read about your program!

Hi bettie32. Looks like I'm not the only one scratching my head..   I've been interested in herbs, health, and natural cosmetic methods just about my entire adult life so I guess I've been operating under the idea that incredible things can be accomplished with things like nutrition and herbs if one knows what they're doing.  But I don't know.. maybe that's a bit of pie-in-the-sky mentality when it comes to NBE.

I do have elevated testosterone according to my last hormone test.  I've dealt with annoying mild to moderate acne ever since I turned 12, have also noticed more "peach fuzz" on my face in recent years and a couple other hair signals..  I know a lot of girls with high T have problems with sugar metabolism, but I think my diet would be a very positive factor in my favor on that one.   Due to some immune health issues over the past few years, I've converted to eating VERY clean in my opinion (dairy free, gluten free, no processed, no fast food, no sugar.. I like to joke that I'm on a food-free diet).  What I DO eat is lots of fresh fruits, veggies, nuts, and organic meats. Unfortunately, the higher T level continues despite the clean diet. Maybe it's a genetic thing with me.

I thought white peony might make a good NBE buddy for the spearmint because from what I understand spearmint blocks DHT and therefore sort of releases the testosterone or makes it "free", which it can then be converted into estrogen by the aromatase action of the white peony.. Correct me if I'm (quite possibly) wrong with that description. Here's the white peony that I was considering --

https://www.iherb.com/pr/Life-Extension-...Caps/55657

Does that look like the correct kind?
[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[NaturalLady31]

That is a great question NaturalLady31. So many of us would like to know too.

I think it could depend on maybe the type of herb, the dose, the period of time one takes it...many members seem to take maintenance doses (lower doses and less frequently) to keep the growth, other members say they lost some growth, not all after quitting. I've always thought that the growth from herbs is temporary. Once you quit, no more phytoestrogens so buh bye gains but I also think (and have read) that glandular growth is...glandular growth. It shouldn't vanish into thin air. When we develop our glands as adolescents, with hormones all over the place, the glands don't just suddenly disappear once puberty ends after all.....it seems there are all sorts of opinions on this matter. Here's a thread about PM (pueraria mirifica) to confuse you even more   : 

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=19705

Regarding your androgen situation, have to gotten any tests done? I also took spearmint to lower my androgens (also tried licorice and pumpkin seeds...). Currently I'm taking low dose hops and cycling it. Hops is a phytoestrogen but it's sort of also an anti-androgen. Yes, white peony sounds like a good idea if you want a pro-aromatase. Just make sure it's the right kind! There are different varieties and I discovered recently that it seems they work differently. The right one for NBE I believe is called Bai Shao (Paeonia Lactiflora). For some reason this hasn't really been mentioned on the forum. I'm very interested to read about your program!

Hi bettie32. Looks like I'm not the only one scratching my head..   I've been interested in herbs, health, and natural cosmetic methods just about my entire adult life so I guess I've been operating under the idea that incredible things can be accomplished with things like nutrition and herbs if one knows what they're doing.  But I don't know.. maybe that's a bit of pie-in-the-sky mentality when it comes to NBE.

I do have elevated testosterone according to my last hormone test.  I've dealt with annoying mild to moderate acne ever since I turned 12, have also noticed more "peach fuzz" on my face in recent years and a couple other hair signals..  I know a lot of girls with high T have problems with sugar metabolism, but I think my diet would be a very positive factor in my favor on that one.   Due to some immune health issues over the past few years, I've converted to eating VERY clean in my opinion (dairy free, gluten free, no processed, no fast food, no sugar.. I like to joke that I'm on a food-free diet).  What I DO eat is lots of fresh fruits, veggies, nuts, and organic meats. Unfortunately, the higher T level continues despite the clean diet. Maybe it's a genetic thing with me.

I thought white peony might make a good NBE buddy for the spearmint because from what I understand spearmint blocks DHT and therefore sort of releases the testosterone or makes it "free", which it can then be converted into estrogen by the aromatase action of the white peony.. Correct me if I'm (quite possibly) wrong with that description. Here's the white peony that I was considering --  

https://www.iherb.com/pr/Life-Extension-...Caps/55657

Does that look like the correct kind?
Save

 Oh Bettie32, I forgot to mention that I read that PM thread.. So does this indicate that only PM produces glandular (permanent) growth, or do phyto-estrogens in general stimulate glandular growth?

[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[NaturalLady31]

Just curious about what you all think about results from herbs-based/massage programs (no pumping)..  Does this give permanent results if the program is kept up for several months after your goal is achieved? Or do you have to keep taking herbs forever to keep the results?? All my research is yielding conflicting info about this. Some articles say that herbs only cause temporary swelling that will always just deflate after stopping the regimen.  

Can any of you give testimony to having permanent results from herbs?

My personal experience was a boost when starting herbs. My guess was prolactin giving them a little wake up call. But then no matter what i took it always went away with herbals. If you look at the likes of Greenbush they have early to long term testimonies and alot seemed to keep their gains but with that said whos to say it took that long for them to gain and then it went away once they stopped! They are hardly going to post up "those" testimonials are they..

I personally think if you are lucky enough to find the right herbs to correct an inbalance you had you could genuinely grow due to filling whatever was missing but i know its alot more compliacted than that for most of us.

Hi there, Ella! I hope it is possible to gain permanently with herbs because I definitely have had a tendency toward androgen-excess, and always have since my early teens. I wonder sometimes if that isn't part of the reason why I've always been on the flat side (B cup, I think.. To be honest, I"m not really sure how much starting tissue I have to work with because sizes vary sooo much among different bra brands). So I'm working currently on getting a digestive issue healed and I've started on spearmint tea 2x a day. Also looking at adding in white peony for extra aromatase promoting.

I guess I'm kind of torn on what to believe.. I know that herbs can create false growth in some cases, and of course I agree that it's all marketing tactics on most sites selling these potions. But at the same time, herbs have been used for thousands of years for so many different purposes.. and they can be very powerful. If certain ones cause estrogenic/androgen-blocking effects in the body and consequently cause the growth of new breast tissue, it just seems like it would be plausable to keep gains if they're sustained long enough for the body to recognize that as the "new norm".

But since I'm a relative newcomer to this NBE stuff, I could be TOTALLY wrong! That's why I'm curious about what you experts on here have to say about permanence. I'll be  ready to embark on a real program hopefully within the several months or so and I wanted to research as much as possible.
 
Save

Yes well if you can dampen those excess andogens then def im.sure the right herbs will help. Ive always wondered why there arent any natural herbalists who specialise in nbe!  There would be extensive hormone testing involved but would help so mamy women

Ella, you're sooo right. I wish there were people more experienced in this area. A lot of women might could save themselves from the horrors of plastic surgery if there was!
[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[bettie32]

e
Hi NaturalLady,
I think you're right, incredible things can be accomplished with the right nutrition and right herbs. The key is to find the right ones, best suited to your body's requirements. 
And this ain't easy.   

Sounds like we're on a similar boat. I have the same "traits" as you. My high T is due to PCOS though. I discovered inositol several months ago (it's vitamin B8 and it lowers testosterone, LH levels, improves insulin resistance etc. etc.) as many women with PCOS take it to improve their hirsutism and lower their testosterone but I think it mainly helps control blood sugar levels which like you said is the cause for high testosterone is certain women. Well, I've been taking d-chiro-inositol for 2 months and I still haven't seen any improvement in my hairy condition lol. This is also making me wonder...maybe my high T has nothing to do with my insulin situation. Anyway, I'll give it some more time before jumping to conclusions. We can't expect miracles overnight, can we?

Yes, I also drank spearmint (to be honest, it made me nauseous after a while...two big cups every single day for months....ugh   ) as they say it's good for women with PCOS and excess androgens. The thing is - I think LovelyDinseli on the forum also pointed this out- spearmint raises LH levels. So I am totally confused. Studies point out that hirsutism seems to have lessened in those who drank spearmint but increased LH levels is definitely not good for women with PCOS. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310494 
Anyway, NaturalLady, you don't have PCOS so I don't think you need to worry about this. The more you embark on this journey, the more you'll realize (you might have already) that there is so much conflicting info out there!! Researching is still very important so make sure you look at the pros and cons of everything before trying anything out. And always start out with low doses!

I checked out the white peony extract link. There's no indication whatsoever as to which white peony it contains. I've been trying to find bai shao tea bags/extract for ages but no luck! Is there a way for you to contact the manufacturer to ask them for more details? Does it contain bai shao (paeonia lactiflora) or bai mudan? The ladies on this forum also mention that there's a difference between the two: http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.ph...hite-peony so we should make sure we're getting the right white peony for NBE.

[bettie32]

Sve
 Oh Bettie32, I forgot to mention that I read that PM thread.. So does this indicate that only PM produces glandular (permanent) growth, or do phyto-estrogens in general stimulate glandular growth?
Save

Another great (and difficult!) question. PM is one of the strongest phytoestrogens, if not the strongest. There are plenty of people who have grown and are growing with other herbs like hops, green bush etc. too but I dunno for certain if all lead to glandular growth......I think phyto-estrogens do stimulate glandular growth though because I doubt we're just growing adipose tissue (fat) on our breasts from phytoestrogens (unless they're making us gain weight). Plus different herbs have different properties, some herbs increase prolactin, other herbs decrease androgens.  An herb that increases milk supply for example will temporarily inflate the breasts. You've opened up an intricate box, NaturalLady!  I hope someone else gives their two cents.
You should definitely start a personal thread once you come up with your NBE plan!