[surferjoe2007]

So something I have noticed is quite common is that PC is needed more often than PM.  And that it’s usually easier to raise PC than PM.  Not always, though.  Some with very low estrogen get trouble from even a little PC.  But usually the typical 1,000 mg max label amount on PM seems to be way stronger than the typical 100 mg max label amount on PC (usually 1 tsp).  Usually it’s too much PM IMO.  I have also read a study showing that PC absorbs poorly, and the blood level increase from prescribed P for HRT is far greater.  Additionally there are many stories of tremendous rapid growth using PM + all progestin BC, and progestin BC is much stronger than PM.  So why not more PC instead of all progestin BC?  I’ve read progesterone is safer for one.

So first I am wondering if the most common ratio of PC to PM should be higher.  For example 100 mg to 500 mg, or 50 mg to 250 mg.  And possibly more or less of either depending on existing hormonal balance.  Sometimes none of one or the other.

Second I dug a bit further and have seen recommendations for 100-200 mg PC for mild cases of estrogen dominance, and up to 400-600 mg temporarily for major cases (I would suggest against this for most).  There are other forums with women using this much, though for hormonal issues not nbe.  So I wonder if perhaps with plenty of nutritional support and/or to correct an imbalance, if some should be using 200 mg or perhaps a little more for nbe.  I know this is pushing it, but so is more than 500 mg PM in cis women IMO. And for most I’m thinking 100 mg PM and 25 mg PC (1/4 tsp usually) to start, un-cycled.  More only gradually with caution, cycling, nutritional support, and/or a hormone test.  Also because I’ve typically said 1,000 mg PM and 1 tsp PC (100 mg) max, usually half this or less, and I’m thinking I should adjust it to 1,000 mg PM and 200 mg or so PC max, and usually half that or less.

Has anyone here tried more than 100 mg PC, and/or low PM while still using  50-100 mg of PC? Any thoughts on this? 

[AngelicBeauty]

Hi Surferjoe, just to clarify, by "PC" do you mean progesterone cream? Or something else? This is something that I might try out.

[surferjoe2007]

Hi Surferjoe, just to clarify, by "PC" do you mean progesterone cream? Or something else? This is something that I might try out.

Yes, progesterone cream.  Sorry I forgot to expand that out at least once in the post.  I hate it when I read abbreviations from others on something new.

Also note that some women need both, some need PM/estrogen more and some need PC more.  It depends on your existing hormones.  You can try a hormone test and/or raising one at a time.  Usually it’s both, but sometimes there’s an imbalance and it’s more of one than the other.

[AngelicBeauty]

Thank you Surferjoe for all your help here. I think it would be great to in each thread, or when something is mentioned for the first time in a new reply, for all of us to write the full words in brackets after the abbreviated form. When I was a lurker it was something I found confusing on top of everything being very overwhelming so I'm sure it will help many.

[sunshine76]

Hi Joe! 

Thanks so much for all the info you've provided on this site throughout the years, you've helped so many of us! 

I've seen you comment on the BC Yasmin before, but wasn't sure if you had any thoughts on the Nexplanon implant, which is 68mg of etonogestrel, a progestin. I've had it for many years and am very happy with it, but I'm not sure how it impacts NBE. I don't get periods so I don't cycle, but should I still be taking PC if I'm taking 500mg BO/day?

Thanks again!

[surferjoe2007]

Hi Joe! 

Thanks so much for all the info you've provided on this site throughout the years, you've helped so many of us! 

I've seen you comment on the BC Yasmin before, but wasn't sure if you had any thoughts on the Nexplanon implant, which is 68mg of etonogestrel, a progestin. I've had it for many years and am very happy with it, but I'm not sure how it impacts NBE. I don't get periods so I don't cycle, but should I still be taking PC if I'm taking 500mg BO/day?

Thanks again!

You probably don’t need additional progesterone if you’re already on progestin BC.  You’d want to be on a pretty strong program first with lots of supporting foods, other herbs and phytoestrogens and then maybe add PC.  But I wouldn’t ever increase BO to very large amounts regardless as it could be dangerous.  Herbs are safer.  The typical amounts of BO taken are pretty low hormone though.

[surferjoe2007]

I’ve suggested this to a few people now and it went very well.  Often more than 1 size in a few months.  Properly balanced estrogen and progesterone is a big part of nbe.  Assuming you don’t need to correct an imbalance by favoring one over the other, balanced seems to be somewhere around 1 mg progesterone per 5 mg pueraria mirifica, cycling both.  Rather than less progesterone like I thought before.

[Teddy]

Hi Joe, Your method sounds interesting. However, in my experience getting "real" PC here in EU without prescription isn't easy, and the only commonly available stuff is Wild Yam -based. Do you have any experience regarding it, and/or what I might be able to find in European Union area?

[surferjoe2007]

All progestin (synthetic progesterone) birth control is similar to very high dose progesterone cream.  However that means you need a lot of pueraria mirifica to balance it out or at minimum 500 mg to at least part way do it.  While there are many stories of rapid and major growth this way, it can be too much for many people (and besides side effects, those people often don’t grow from doing too much either).  They may want to start with no progesterone/progestin, 1 capsule vitex instead (more probably doesn’t do more), no pueraria mirifica or only 100-250 mg, the foods in my signature link and other herbs.  Then after a long time on the foods and gentler herbs they might try this way if desired.

I don’t know where you stand.  Usually those starting larger and with good hormonal health have an easier time while those starting smaller or with hormonal issues have it harder.  That said even if starting smaller or with a hormone imbalance, if a hormone test confirms very low progesterone relative to estrogen and you’re lucky enough for that to be the only issue then all progestin BC and moderate pueraria mirifica may be what’s needed for balance.  Or others who can get progesterone cream can use that instead, and then PM is optional since it would take quite a lot of PC to match BC and to flip the imbalance the other way.


A couple of the people I messaged with who got multiple sizes of growth did grow from A cup with med-high progesterone cream and low-med pueraria mirifica.  And had struggled with other ways.  And there are many past stories in hormonal balancing forums of growing from progesterone cream alone, though none of these people I messaged with this method recently had a strong enough imbalance to warrant doing that.  Since a small chest often (but not always) means either low progesterone or high testosterone or both, it makes sense.  A hormone test is the only way to be sure.

[surferjoe2007]

Update: I suggested this to several women on reddit and it’s going extremely well.  Some get several inches of bust, some a few, some make slow progress.  Also the rest of my sig program and often freeze dried aloe.  From time to time someone I never knew about posts their great success too, so there are probably many more lurkers doing well.  It also seems to make side effects from pueraria mirifica very rare.  Which makes sense from the hormone balance and because progesterone is supposed to improve the safety of estrogen.  As always some women need more or less of one or the other, but I think this is about right for someone with balanced hormones and a strong majority of women can use it as is.  An adjustment can be a little better though, and a small number with a bad imbalance might omit one or the other for at least a few cycles.

Eventually I’m going to update my signature program but I haven’t had the time and I still need to finish a couple parts.