Hi all (again!) I'm Eve. About two or three months ago I started using Mrs. Mad Scientist's program more or less as she laid out on her page. Specifically I was doing the following daily:
"45 grams kinako
120-240 ml of whole milk
30 grams of flax seed oil
30 grams fennel seed
30 grams fenugreek"
I'm also taking (as prescribed by my primary care physician)
6mg Estradiol
3mg Spironolactone
Since beginning the program I almost immediately went up a cup size, and have stayed at about that size since I began, so from a B34 to a C34. I suspect I would have kept growing but after about a month or so I needed to take a break from the program. I'm not lactose intolerant but drinking that much milk was difficult for me. I don't usually drink the stuff, so it was a bit of a change. Likewise I noticed that I'd begun to gain weight somewhat rapidly, in spite of maintaining my usual exercise routine. As I said in my intro post my weight jumped from ~150 lbs to ~160 lbs, and has begun to drop again since I stopped the program. Lastly I began to notice certain changes in my mood. My libido spiked to a noticeable degree. Also I noticed that as time went on it felt harder and harder to continue drinking the mixture. By the end doing so made me feel strange. I don't exactly know how to describe it, just sort of icky, apologies for the vagueness. I think in hindsight that was likely due to a hormonal spike, and the icky feeling was my body tapping out so to speak.
On my intro post people asked questions about hormonal fluctuations. While I didn't know at the time I do now, as I've had the opportunity to get my bloodwork done and can compare the results over time.
Earlier this year before I began the program I had the following concentrations. This is as of April.
Estradoil 48.5 (pg/mL)
Testosterone 160 (ng/dL)
My most recent bloodwork showed the following. This is as of July.
Estradiol 133.0 (pg/mL)
Testosterone 751 (ng/dL)
So essentially the concentration of hormones in my blood has increased pretty substantially. Over the span of 3 months the concentration of estrogen in my blood has more than tripled, and the concentration of testosterone jumped to more than four and a half times what it used to be. Now what does any of this mean? To be honest I don't really know. I'm not a doctor. I don't really have a firm understanding on how this works. I have talked to my doctor a bit about it though. To paraphrase, they mentioned that hormones aren't like a drug. They build up in the body over time. So in other words the estradiol in my blood is at it's predictable levels. I've been taking meds over time to boost it, and it is boosting. On the other hand the sudden spike in testosterone is an outlier. I am taking medication to actively suppress testosteronal production. Thus the program I started was likely what caused my T levels to spike because my body couldn't just do that on its own. Also I will include on potentially important caveat; I did not begin the program exactly as Miss mad scientist instructed. She said in her program to take flax seed oil along with the Kinako. I couldn't get ahold of any for two weeks, but I started taking the Kinkako in milk and drinking the herbal tea anyway- thus I may have set myself up for unusual results. I believe she mentioned in her post that the flax seed oil was essential to actually metabolize the free estrogen in the milk/kinako mix. Thus it's likely that my having done that also impacted the hormonal balance in my blood.
So what's my take away? Numbers aside the program essentially worked for me. My girls are bigger, and have remained bigger even after I stopped the program, albeit I have only stopped for about a month. Likewise in that period of time I have noticed a gradual improvement in their shape. to begin with they didn't really have much dimension to them. Now however they do seem to have a more impressive tear drop sort of shape to them, and I'm quite happy about that.
So what am I going to do next?
First: I'm gonna email my doctor. I just wanna get a better informed second opinion about what I'm doing; as I have a family history of health complications of which I need to be considerate.
Second: If I get the go ahead from my GP, I'm going to continue the program but with some alterations. If I continue it I'm gonna swap out the whole milk for lactose free whole milk, or oatmilk, because I think I may have gradually become more lactose intolerant. I don't mind if this makes the program slower or less effective. I'd rather see gradual progress than sudden dramatic changes.
Third: I'm going to go back to being vegetarian. The studies Mrs. Mad Scientists shared mentioned something about the rates of phytoestrogen metabolization being higher among vegetarians, thus doing so might make the program more effective, even if I dial back the dosages.
Fourth: More vigorous exercise. My routine used to primarily revolve around cardio. I did about an hour and half of it daily. I'm going to dial that back and focus on weights more. This is both to prevent weight gain while I'm on the program, but also to increase my metabolism. That should help me process all the foods I take in better.
Fifth: I'm going to cut out the fenugreek, and fennel seed tea. I think between the medications, and the baseline program I don't think I need to add anything that might cause further hormonal fluctuations into the mix. I could tell the tea was always effective too. Pretty much every time I finished a cup of it my nipples would get sore, so something was definitely happening there.
Anyways I think I've yapped enough for now. I'll probably post another update in a month or two based on the next steps I end up taking. I'm also getting more bloodwork done later this year, so I'll share once that's done too. Also I just wanted to add- this is just my personal experience. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone else's program, or presenting myself as an expert in anything. I am not knowledgeable with respect to medicine, or dieting. I just tried wanted to share these observations of my own body, and some speculations, in hopes that it might be helpful to others. To paraphrase my doctor again, "Every body is unique," and thus there will always be differences, and nuances between our experiences on here, even if we're all trying to do the same thing.
Wishing everyone the best of luck with their NBE journeys.
Sincerely, Eva
"45 grams kinako
120-240 ml of whole milk
30 grams of flax seed oil
30 grams fennel seed
30 grams fenugreek"
I'm also taking (as prescribed by my primary care physician)
6mg Estradiol
3mg Spironolactone
Since beginning the program I almost immediately went up a cup size, and have stayed at about that size since I began, so from a B34 to a C34. I suspect I would have kept growing but after about a month or so I needed to take a break from the program. I'm not lactose intolerant but drinking that much milk was difficult for me. I don't usually drink the stuff, so it was a bit of a change. Likewise I noticed that I'd begun to gain weight somewhat rapidly, in spite of maintaining my usual exercise routine. As I said in my intro post my weight jumped from ~150 lbs to ~160 lbs, and has begun to drop again since I stopped the program. Lastly I began to notice certain changes in my mood. My libido spiked to a noticeable degree. Also I noticed that as time went on it felt harder and harder to continue drinking the mixture. By the end doing so made me feel strange. I don't exactly know how to describe it, just sort of icky, apologies for the vagueness. I think in hindsight that was likely due to a hormonal spike, and the icky feeling was my body tapping out so to speak.
On my intro post people asked questions about hormonal fluctuations. While I didn't know at the time I do now, as I've had the opportunity to get my bloodwork done and can compare the results over time.
Earlier this year before I began the program I had the following concentrations. This is as of April.
Estradoil 48.5 (pg/mL)
Testosterone 160 (ng/dL)
My most recent bloodwork showed the following. This is as of July.
Estradiol 133.0 (pg/mL)
Testosterone 751 (ng/dL)
So essentially the concentration of hormones in my blood has increased pretty substantially. Over the span of 3 months the concentration of estrogen in my blood has more than tripled, and the concentration of testosterone jumped to more than four and a half times what it used to be. Now what does any of this mean? To be honest I don't really know. I'm not a doctor. I don't really have a firm understanding on how this works. I have talked to my doctor a bit about it though. To paraphrase, they mentioned that hormones aren't like a drug. They build up in the body over time. So in other words the estradiol in my blood is at it's predictable levels. I've been taking meds over time to boost it, and it is boosting. On the other hand the sudden spike in testosterone is an outlier. I am taking medication to actively suppress testosteronal production. Thus the program I started was likely what caused my T levels to spike because my body couldn't just do that on its own. Also I will include on potentially important caveat; I did not begin the program exactly as Miss mad scientist instructed. She said in her program to take flax seed oil along with the Kinako. I couldn't get ahold of any for two weeks, but I started taking the Kinkako in milk and drinking the herbal tea anyway- thus I may have set myself up for unusual results. I believe she mentioned in her post that the flax seed oil was essential to actually metabolize the free estrogen in the milk/kinako mix. Thus it's likely that my having done that also impacted the hormonal balance in my blood.
So what's my take away? Numbers aside the program essentially worked for me. My girls are bigger, and have remained bigger even after I stopped the program, albeit I have only stopped for about a month. Likewise in that period of time I have noticed a gradual improvement in their shape. to begin with they didn't really have much dimension to them. Now however they do seem to have a more impressive tear drop sort of shape to them, and I'm quite happy about that.
So what am I going to do next?
First: I'm gonna email my doctor. I just wanna get a better informed second opinion about what I'm doing; as I have a family history of health complications of which I need to be considerate.
Second: If I get the go ahead from my GP, I'm going to continue the program but with some alterations. If I continue it I'm gonna swap out the whole milk for lactose free whole milk, or oatmilk, because I think I may have gradually become more lactose intolerant. I don't mind if this makes the program slower or less effective. I'd rather see gradual progress than sudden dramatic changes.
Third: I'm going to go back to being vegetarian. The studies Mrs. Mad Scientists shared mentioned something about the rates of phytoestrogen metabolization being higher among vegetarians, thus doing so might make the program more effective, even if I dial back the dosages.
Fourth: More vigorous exercise. My routine used to primarily revolve around cardio. I did about an hour and half of it daily. I'm going to dial that back and focus on weights more. This is both to prevent weight gain while I'm on the program, but also to increase my metabolism. That should help me process all the foods I take in better.
Fifth: I'm going to cut out the fenugreek, and fennel seed tea. I think between the medications, and the baseline program I don't think I need to add anything that might cause further hormonal fluctuations into the mix. I could tell the tea was always effective too. Pretty much every time I finished a cup of it my nipples would get sore, so something was definitely happening there.
Anyways I think I've yapped enough for now. I'll probably post another update in a month or two based on the next steps I end up taking. I'm also getting more bloodwork done later this year, so I'll share once that's done too. Also I just wanted to add- this is just my personal experience. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone else's program, or presenting myself as an expert in anything. I am not knowledgeable with respect to medicine, or dieting. I just tried wanted to share these observations of my own body, and some speculations, in hopes that it might be helpful to others. To paraphrase my doctor again, "Every body is unique," and thus there will always be differences, and nuances between our experiences on here, even if we're all trying to do the same thing.
Wishing everyone the best of luck with their NBE journeys.
Sincerely, Eva
