[admin]

My search for a low dose phytoestrogen...
April 5 2007 at 2:21 AM waxingmoon (Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am one of many on here who suffer from Estrogen Dominance. I have tried to cut down on my exposure to environmental estrogens (xenoestrogens) by avoiding contact with pesticides, plastics, solvents, steroids in meats, etc. Recently an article brought to my attention another way to reduce the excess estrogen through the use of low dose phytoestrogens. It did not however list what those might be.

So, I tried a random shot in the dark and took a very low dose of fenugreek. The bottle said take 2 pills three times a day. I took one pill twice a day. Two days later - wham - acne like I haven't experienced in... well since I started using natural progesterone cream in Sept. I was stunned at my body's prompt response and dismayed because although I knew which phytoestrogens had high estrogenic activity (red clover is the highest) I did not know which herbs offered the lowest estrogenic action.

Today, I can proudly proclaim I know about lignans (a group of phytoestrogens with low estrogen effect... thank you wikipedia)

I looked around some more and found a reference to the lignan content of various foods. These low dose phytoestrogens should help those who are battling estrogen dominance. Here is a link that goes into lignans in some detail:

http://www.dietaryfiberfood.com/lignan.php

For those who don't want to follow the link (good info with a chart and lots of numbers!!! lol) here is a basic list:

Flax seed (the highest), pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, rye, broccoli, curly kale, garlic, beans, apricot, strawberry, peach, olive oil, grape juice and tomato juice... and the list goes on and on...

The above has now become my current snack list...

But I still wonder. To all of you with herbal skills, what are the estrogen dosages within herbs? Can you rank them from high to low? Aside from flax and the other foods listed in the link, are there some common NBE herbs that are low in estrogen? I am not looking for progesterone like herbs. I am looking for things that will bind to the estrogen receptors and block the more potent estrogens. Any ideas?

Thanks for your help,
waxingmoon



Author Reply
bonnette
(Login bonnette) Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 6 2007, 9:07 AM


yes, i would also like to know

i just know fennel is weaker than fenugreek so i take fennel.

Happy growing Waxingmoon!

Bonnette


Edit Message Delete Message

waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 8 2007, 6:30 PM


Well I did some research this am and I have a partial list, but it is nowhere near absolute:

Highest to lowest in estrogen effect in body:

Red clover
Licorice
Soy
Fenugreek (edited based on discussion below)
Thyme
Turmeric
Hops

Somewhat less than the above and in no particular order:
Wild yam (edit: does this act as a phytoestrogen?)
Ginsing
Fennel (edit: where does it fit in?)

Lower in estrogen effect but in no particular order:
Flaxseed
Borage
Oats
Nettle root
Dong quai

Again - this list is very suspect to inaccuracies. I am only certain about the higher estrogen herbs.

Please those of you with herbal knowlege help me out with this list. I have already used the info on herbs section of this forum. I bet you know some things that can make this more accurate.

Thanks for your help,
waxingmoon

P.S. I will keep editing this original post to track the info we come up with...


This message has been edited by waxingmoon on Apr 8, 2007 8:43 PM




Edit Message Delete Message

Tessie
(no login) Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 8 2007, 7:46 PM


Wild Yam isn't estrogenic - It's progesteronic.

Fenugreek can't possibly be weaker than Thyme. Licorice and Soy!And ginseng stronger than Fennel? I think this is somewhat inaccurate.

Anyway, good luck in your search. There is a lot of contradicting info out there.


Edit Message Delete Message

bonnette
(Login bonnette) Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 8 2007, 8:06 PM


Waxingmoon

i also have doubts about the order of the list

fenugreek is supposed to be the strongest followed by fennel and others.

Maybe Molly could help us out


Bonnette


Edit Message Delete Message

Anonymous
(Login Sarabell239) Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 8 2007, 8:32 PM


This is really interesting Waxingmoon. Thank you for researching this, I am sure it is very difficult because of all the info out there, but it is good to have an idea of this on this board for all of us to refer too. Thank you!


Edit Message Delete Message

waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 8 2007, 8:40 PM


Tessie and Bonnette, thanks for your response.

About wild yam. Here is part of something I posted on the information on herbs thread a while ago:

"Wild yam (Dioscoria villosa) increased progesterone receptor binding in 20-30% of women, but appeared to suppress progesterone. Researchers concluded that diosgenin, the yam compound used to synthesize progesterone, “did not convert to progesterone in the body.”

In the research I have done, wild yam is listed as a phytoestrogen. It binds to progesterone receptors but has no progesterone effect. Some articles say it is a "pre-progesterone" meaning our body can use it to enhance progesterone, but there is no scientific evidence to back this up that I have found. I really am confused as to what wild yam's ultimate means of action is.

As far as Fenegreek, I found listings of it as a steroid, but it never was studied along with Red Clover and Licorice which had very high estrogen effect. I think it does have a high estrogen, but I would really appreciate any articles that back up this thought. For now I will put Fenegreek above Thyme based on your thoughts.

As far as Fennel, I have found nothing other than it comes from a family of plants that are phytoestrogens. Most on the board agree it is weaker than Fenugreek, but by how much. I know soy and licorice are very high but in the body not higher than red clover. Again the report I found this info on did not test Fennel or Fenugreek. If it had, this would be so much easier.

Thanks again for you interest and you help.

waxingmoon


Edit Message Delete Message

Tessie
(no login) Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 8 2007, 9:04 PM


Only... No one gets growing pains from soy alone. So it can't be THAT strong.

When I looked in the herbs section here, I found that
diosgenin is the active phyto-hormone in both Fenugreek and Wild Yam, and estragole is the active phyto-hormone in Fennel.
IN Red Clover it is daidzein, and in Soy it is mainly daidzein and genistein.

No clue to what order they should be in. But I always thought Fenugreek and Red Clover were the highest in estrogenic effect.




Edit Message Delete Message

Anonymous
(Login jewelflora) Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 8 2007, 9:11 PM


Hey girls I was reseaching to find something I found that could be interesting to add to all of this discussion...thought you all might be interesting in reading this article. It list different phytoestrogen foods and also mentions to make the best use of our hormones we should have good gut flora which my question is would it be ok to take Acidopholus since this does help with building your gut flora to help you take in these hormones...oh and here is the link. http://www.fwhc.org/health/phytoestrogens.htm


Edit Message Delete Message

Anonymous
(Login jewelflora) Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 8 2007, 9:13 PM


Oh and I also disreguarded what the beginning part said since it talks about increasing your chances of breast cancer, I wasnt posting it to be discouraging I just thought that it might be useful in knowing what carries phytoestrogens K?!


Edit Message Delete Message

waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 9 2007, 4:01 AM


Jewelflora,
Thanks for that link. I like the foods list.

It seems that the info I am hunting is not common knowlege or it would be listed in articles like that one. Ah well, each piece of the puzzle will eventually give me the full picture.

Thanks again,
waxingmoon




Edit Message Delete Message

waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Fenugreek April 10 2007, 2:30 PM


Does anyone have a link or reference regarding Fenugreek as a phytoestrogen?

So far I find references to it as a 'steroidal saponin' which would make it a building block to male and female steroids. It is also listed as a rich source of essential fatty acids. As far as estrogenic properties I am comming up with nothing. Either I have not found the right references yet, or Fenugreek functions in a different manner than I originally thought.

Thanks for you help,
waxingmoon


Edit Message Delete Message

Anonymous
(Login jewelflora) Re: My search for a low dose phytoestrogen... April 10 2007, 4:03 PM


Hi Waxing Moon,
this is a link I came across, not sure if it is what you would be looking for!

http://www.vitaminstuff.com/herbs-fenugreek.html


Edit Message Delete Message

Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER Bump! December 6 2007, 9:37 AM


It's been awhile since this post has been active, so I'm not sure if there is still interest here (besides mine!). I too, am trying to track highly estrogenic herbs and how they all potentially translate. I haven't been able to find info specific to estrogen dosages within each herb, either. So, regarding estrogen (etc.), here's what I have found so far:

*Fenugreek: stimulates the growth of breast tissue, not due to any estrogen supplied by the herb, but due to changes in the liver enzymes that slow the rate at which the body breaks down estrogen.

*Fennel: has a mild estrogenic effect; increases concentrations of estrogen in the bloodstream

*Hops: contains the most potent of all plant estrogens; women with estrogen sensitive disorders should avoid

*Chaste tree: does not contain plants estrogens, but two forms of testosterone

Not sure if any of this is helpful, but I thought that Hops should be higher on the list (but, of course, by how much??)


Edit Message Delete Message

pooikuan82
(Login pooikuan82) NBE lead to endometriosis? January 22 2011, 9:30 AM


Hi all,

I was on the NBE path for probably couple of months or maybe half a year, hoping to increase my breast size the natural way. I was on the breast enhancement herbs tea, massaging with fenugreek, fennel, wild yam, red clover extract on my breast every night, taking lots protein food e.g. egg, soy bean milk everyday, u name it. Not soon after, I was diagnosed with endometriosis. Went for surgery to remove both 4-5cm ovarian cysts. Ever since then I have changed my diet. Research online told me to avoid any estrogen-enriched food as estrogen is the main culprit in stimulating the growth of endometrium tissues. I'm not sure if the NBE diet and all the herb have anything to do with the endometriosis. But if estrogen can stimulating the growth of the breast tissue, I'm pretty sure it will also stimulate the growth of endometrium tissues too.

Does anyone has any experience in that or confirm that?
I'm afraid to start on the NBE path again, or if I do, how do I gonna do it but avoiding estrogen at the same time??

Grace


Edit Message Delete Message

Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER NBE lead to endometriosis January 22 2011, 8:51 PM


Is NBE a cause of endometriosis or ovarian cysts?

No.

Does NBE make endometriosis or ovarian cysts worse.

Absolutely!

Rule #1 for NBE (aside from being female) is to be healthy before beginning.
If one has endometriosis or ovarian cysts, they should expect NBE to exacerbate the problem.