[melissa4u]

Hi Anastasia,
Thank you so much for your reply!
Your story sounds SO MUCH like mine.
Like you, my areolas got puffy and my breasts were taking a triangular shape and just like you said, it was not as bad as when I was pregnant/breastfeeding, it is much worse for me now. My breasts are empty and saggy now. I, too, breastfed my daughter for 3 months! and it was a constant battle for me too, like I said in my post, it was one of the most stressful times of my life, honestly!
I was so UPSET when i stopped breastfeeding. I felt guilty, but there was nothing I can do, I feel like it was a fight and I was losing.

I am commited to NB so far and I will order UB within the next few days or weeks, I am not even going to try to finish my generic BO that I bought, I will switch to UB, I have read a lot about it lately, I really want to try it out.

I did not leak during pregnancy.
First few days of breastfeeding, I would wake up and I would see milk leaking through my bra, but then after the first few days, it was really HARD for me to get milk in. Like I said, my baby was hungry and she wanted to breastfeed every 10-15 minutes and i just couldn't keep up.
Thank you again Anastasia for the reply, I appreciate it.

[Anastasia916]

I wouldn't waste the BO you have now, just take the same amount of MG's daily as UB has.. UB has 540mg of BO in each capsule, and it's recommended to take 3 UBs per day, so that totals 1620mg per day of BO. So just take however many capsules of your generic BO to get close to 1620mg per day so you can use up what you have, then start UB. I'm not saying not to order UB, you can order it but don't waste the supply you already have.

I'm not trying to be harsh or mean at all... but I kinda think you need to hear this. I think your main problem in NBE is you do not calm down and just do your program for one day at all. You are constantly looking for other things to try instead of just doing the program you are doing currently. You will not succeed in NBE unless you calm down and stop worrying so much. Like I have always said, the only time a program worked for me was when I calmed down and just did my program like a routine, I did it like it was brushing my teeth daily. You have to try a program (as long as you aren't getting bad side effects) for at least 6 months. Then decide from there if it's working or not for you. But from what I notice from you is you are jumping all over the place, and trust me I understand the temptation to want to try it all. But you have to fight that, just calm down and do your BO and NB program daily like a routine, then after 6 months or more decide if you want to change it up or try something different. I see you constantly asking questions about switching from BO to PM, or to other herbs, etc. etc. Just slow down. Calm down. Stress will NOT help you grow. Now switching BO brands, I think that's fine. If you want to switch from generic to UB or to BB that's fine. But yea, just concentrate on what you're doing now, worry about the rest later.

[melissa4u]

Hi Anastasia.
First of all, NO you are not being harsh or mean, I actually like tough criticism sometimes, especially with NBE. I need to know what I am doing wrong.
Yes, I know I need to be patient with NBE. I have actually become more patient now than before ha ha. I am taking 7-8 pills of generic BO and it equals to 1750 mg of BO a day, so I am getting enough.
The problem for me about generic is, from what I have read, ladies do see growth but very very slowly, I think generic is not as potent as UB or BB. That is just my opinion and I could be wrong. I was going to first buy BB but it was too expensive.
I think UB is more my price range, LOL

I was asking lots of questions about PM because I became SOO interested as so many got great results fast. I wanted to learn as much as I can if I decided to do switch to PM. I like to ask lots of questions before starting or buying something LOL. If you look at my few latest posts, I said I will give BO 6 months, and I said, if after that, BO doesnt work for me, I will switch to PM or Zoft. I have actually become a little discouraged to try PM because it DOES require a maintenance dose and that is fine but thats what made me want to commit 6 months to BO. I dont mind taking maintenace, but I would like to try a permanent solution first. As for the NB, i will use it forever, LOL
I love NB and I dont think I will stop it, regardless of what internal NBE I am taking.
Thank you for your reply.
But what I dont understand is why you posted this in this topic and not posted it to my other posts because in this topic I am talking about my breast shape and breastfeeding problems and etc. But I appreciate your reply anyways.

[Anastasia916]

I don't read every thread on the forum, so when I reply to something or someone it's because I read that one thread and have something to say is all. I know about asking a ton of questions before you buy something, I'm the same way. But I also know how I am or was when I first started NBE, I was impatient too! I know it's hard. And I see you asking about a ton of different methods while on a BO regimen and I knew what that would have meant if I were doing that back when I first started lol. It would have meant I was getting discouraged and looking to switch to something else! Also with BO remember that Cheryl got the best results out of all of us on a BO/NB regimen and she did BO and NB for 2 years straight! So maybe 6 months may not be enough for you, who knows. If you get some results after 6 months I'd say continue it. I know BB recommends a full year for best results.

I have to admit the results from PM as well are very good, and I've been tempted to try myself, it's just I already know what works for me. So I stick to what works. I'm considering taking PM in a small dose after I'm done with BO to see what it does for my skin because they say it get rid of sunspots, so I want to test it lol. I have a few white ones here and there on my arms and tummy. And who knows if I don't grow where I want to with BO I might try to grow with PM, we'll see. All I was saying is for now you should concentrate on your current program. It's easy to get sidetracked. VERY EASY. It's easy to start thinking something else might work better than what you're currently doing, so you get discouraged about your current program, thus not as enthused about it, and then ultimately giving up on it and not getting results. I've seen it happen alot on here. Women try one thing for a couple months start reading about all these other things, get discouraged in their current program, then give it up and jump from one thing to the next and never get results. It's a vicious cycle.

And yea unfortunately generic BO you have to take more pills then you would with UB or BB to get the right amount of BO. And I don't know which one you use, how many capsules come in a bottle and how much a bottle cost. But if you add it all up and figure out how much you have to use in one month. Sometimes generic comes out to be more expensive than UB. I did the math on every generic brand I found that's why I went with UB. I even did the math on each package of UB lol and found out which one of their packages saved the most money haha. Talk about research huh? I'm definitely a research nut before I buy anything. When I was deciding on BO I spent 2 months researching and reading before I decided and on which brand to buy LOL.

Now as far as improving shape, like I said I think for me it was a combination of massage (I do a deep tissue type with lotion as well as CHI), the breast exercises, and NB. I'm with you I will always do NB, I have slowed down in between programs with NB. But I always did it here and there lol. My hubby would ask "I thought you were done growing?" and I'd tell him I'm addicted to the way NB makes my breasts round and firm. I fear if I stop NB all together they will do what every woman's breast do naturally, sag. It's normal and what happens with time and age. But I think if I continue NB, just doing it here and there, they'll remain round and perky, haha wishful thinking perhaps but we'll see! That's also why I'm considering PM after I'm done growing with BO, because I heard a small dose can keep them firm and round. If it helps my skin and does that, I wouldn't mind taking a small amount the rest of my life. I know Philli over on the NB forum does a maintenance dose and swears by it. She uses a kind from ebay, it comes directly from Thailand, I forget the name of it just know what the bottles look like. And it's pretty inexpensive. But I definitely want to see if I can grow 1 1/2 more cup sizes with BO first. I have 4 1/2 bottles of UB left. After that I may order some more BO, we'll see.

[Ginie]

Hi Melissa, I just saw your question. The only way to really know (not guess) if there's a hormonal imbalance is to take the blood test or do the BBT charting. I know, I've been talking about BBt charting over and over but I seriously think that if a blood test is out of the question then it is the only way to KNOW. I have a lot of information in my program about it. All you can do is to measure your basal temperature first thing every morning then make a chart. Then you'll see exactly if there's a problem and what kind of problem. Progesterone deficiency charts normally are like this: low temperature in luteal phase, gradually increasing without a significant jump before the period. Estrogen-progesterone deficiency look different. Estrogen dominance look different too. So you'll be able to nail it down yourself and have something to discuss with your doctor if you want.

[melissa4u]

Thank u so much Ginie!
I will start charting my temperature and I have seen the charts you have posted on your program, I will compare my temperature readings to it!
Thank you so much for all the help, you are such a sweetheart!

[melissa4u]

I saw this picture and I wanted to post it, so I can give others an idea of how my breasts look like.
I am type 4:

[melissa4u]

I really wanted to post this up here so others can benefit from this article and so I can have it written here so I can always go back to reading it. This totally makes sense to me!

Tubular hypoplastic breast

There is one exception to the rule about breast size/shape and breastfeeding ability, and that is that few women have insufficient glandular tissue in their breasts. In other words they simply don't have enough milk producing cells, and these women can then experience milk supply problems. This condition is called breast hypoplasia or hypoplastic breasts.

This kind of breast is underdeveloped (hypoplastic) in terms of the milk glands. They lack normal fullness and may look like 'empty sacks', and may seem bulbous or swollen at the tip. Many times hypoplastic breasts are widely spaced from each other, and narrow at the chest wall. Due to lack of glandular tissue, they have an elongated or tubular form, and often are quite small. The areola can be enlarged. There may be a significant asymmetry. The breasts don't grow during pregnancy and there is no engorgement when the milk is supposed to come in after giving birth.

Scientists don't yet know for sure the reason(s) for this underdevelopment. One theory is that at least in some women it would be linked to too little progesterone, since progesterone mediates the growth of alveoli (milk making glands).

In a 2006 study in Mexico, teenage girls who lived in the agricultural valley with heavy pesticide use had poor mammary gland developmend, and 18.5% of them had NO milk glands.

Other issues include PCOS and other insulin metabolism issues, hypothyroidism, and testosterone overload. Fixing the metabolic issues may help, as might pushing lots of stimulation to increase prolactin levels after birth.

There is also one interesting case reproted in the medical literature where a woman with such underdeveloped breasts was able to successfully nurse her second child, after being given natural progesterone during her second pregnancy. Progesterone stimulates the growth of the glandular tissue in breasts during pregnancy.

If you happen to have these tubular hypoplastic (under-developed) breasts, talk to a lactation consultant before giving birth. Even better, talk to a doctor before pregnancy about a possible natural progesterone treatment. There are measures you can take to try increase your milk supply and your chances of breastfeeding, such as

have an unmedicated birth if possible, and put the baby to the breast right after birth
nurse often and on cue
start to pump about three days after birth
try the herbs fenugreek and blessed thistle or the drug domperidone
breast compression technique to stimulate more letdowns
Correct underlying metabolic or hormonal issues (PCOS, hypothyroidism). One lady has posted her success story below; she was able to see breast changes during her 2nd pregnancy and subsequently breastfeed, after taking Metformin to correct her PCOS.
Discuss these and other options with the lactation consultant. You may need to supplement with formula,so it is important to observe the baby's output of wet and dirty diapers and weight gain to make sure the baby is getting enough nutrition. Remember also to be happy for whatever breast milk you produce and not blame yourself - even a little is better than none! And if you don't get any milk at all (which does happen), remember it's not your fault. For this kind of situation we are thankful that the baby formula exists.

http://www.007b.com/breast_size_breastfeeding.php

[Isabelle]

Thank you Melissa,

It's the first time I read that tubular breasts, insufficient milk, PCOS, and testosterone excess are related. Domperidone (Motilium) is the prescription my ex got. Metformin was developed from goat's rue.

[melissa4u]

Hi Isabelle!

I was prescribed Reglan to increase my milk.
I was so relieved to see that article, I honestly was so confused as to why my breasts became this way during pregnancy and why my breasts just did not look normal like other pregnant women's breasts, full and round, and I did not engorge either.
I FINALLY got the answer.
I have tubular breasts so that means I have insufficient glandular tissue, which means I don't have enough milk producing cells. BINGO!
That is what my problem was and honestly I can't speak for Anastasia, but I know she had slight tubular shaped breasts and from what I had read, she also had trouble breastfeeding her son, so I think we just didn't have the ability to produce more milk.

Another thing that struck me, is just like what you said, Isabelle, about the lack of progesterone. In the article, it says that lack of progesterone is one of the reasons scientists believe can be the cause of this. It also said, a woman, who was unable to breastfeed her first child, received progesterone treatment during her 2nd pregnancy, and she went on to breastfeed successfully.

So far, I know three things that develop more glandular tissue and they are Alfalfa, Goat's Rue and Progesterone cream. I read that Goat's Rue is NOT to be used during pregnancy, but Alfalfa and Progesterone cream is okay during pregnancy. I will look more into this.

I really hope others will benefit from this.