[NaturalLady31]

e
Hi NaturalLady,
I think you're right, incredible things can be accomplished with the right nutrition and right herbs. The key is to find the right ones, best suited to your body's requirements. 
And this ain't easy.   

Sounds like we're on a similar boat. I have the same "traits" as you. My high T is due to PCOS though. I discovered inositol several months ago (it's vitamin B8 and it lowers testosterone, LH levels, improves insulin resistance etc. etc.) as many women with PCOS take it to improve their hirsutism and lower their testosterone but I think it mainly helps control blood sugar levels which like you said is the cause for high testosterone is certain women. Well, I've been taking d-chiro-inositol for 2 months and I still haven't seen any improvement in my hairy condition lol. This is also making me wonder...maybe my high T has nothing to do with my insulin situation. Anyway, I'll give it some more time before jumping to conclusions. We can't expect miracles overnight, can we?

Yes, I also drank spearmint (to be honest, it made me nauseous after a while...two big cups every single day for months....ugh   ) as they say it's good for women with PCOS and excess androgens. The thing is - I think LovelyDinseli on the forum also pointed this out- spearmint raises LH levels. So I am totally confused. Studies point out that hirsutism seems to have lessened in those who drank spearmint but increased LH levels is definitely not good for women with PCOS. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17310494 
Anyway, NaturalLady, you don't have PCOS so I don't think you need to worry about this. The more you embark on this journey, the more you'll realize (you might have already) that there is so much conflicting info out there!! Researching is still very important so make sure you look at the pros and cons of everything before trying anything out. And go low dose (at least in the beginning)!

I checked out the white peony extract link. There's no indication whatsoever as to which white peony it contains. I've been trying to find bai shao tea bags/extract for ages but no luck! Is there a way for you to contact the manufacturer to ask them for more details? Does it contain bai shao (paeonia lactiflora) or bai mudan? The ladies on this forum also mention that there's a difference between the two: http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.ph...hite-peony

Hi again, Bettie32.  Well at least I'm not alone in the quest for less hair and more boob, lol. I know it all sounds like stabbing in the dark, but surely we'll get there if we keep on experimenting.
Yes, I have done some research on inositol and was going to try it a while back, but I was reading such conflicting info about what it does with blood sugar levels.. I certainly don't need to lower my blood sugar right now.  I did not know that spearmint raises LH.. On my last hormone test, both my LH and FSH surges were slightly low, which I  think has to do with those other immune issues that I mentioned yesterday. But if spearmint only raises LH, would this then possibly affect the FSH more negatively.. meaning, lower it even more?? I have no clue.  Great, more things to research.
You may be on to something about your Testosterone levels, Bettie. If the inositol is helping the insulin but not the androgens, that sort of does sound like maybe they're unrelated. But I would keep pursuing the inositol for a while like you said just to make sure.

Don't worry, I usually start new supplements/herbs very timidly because I can't stand to have a reaction to something..  I went with the shotgun approach a time or two in the past.. and regretted it.

Ok, this stuff may not be worth two hoots, but I did find this Bai Shao.
https://www.amazon.com/White-Peony-Root-...B008LX14WQ 
What's your thoughts on this?

In your first post you mentioned a thread on PM.. Do you think glandular growth is caused by phytoestrogens in general or specifically PM?

[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[bettie32]

ave
Haha yes, let's form a "less hair, more boob" club 

I've only done 2 cycles of hops (and I started off with a very low dlose) but if all is good, you might like to consider it one day. It's a phytoestrogen, it's also a type of anti-androgen, stimulates prolactin and some say that it could also act like a pro-aromatase. Instead of taking a million different herbs (because many believe that for NBE you need to take one herb for estrogen, one for prolactin, one pro-aromatase etc......). Hops is practically 4 for the price of 1. Plus I get side effects very easily so the less stuff I take, the better. 

Regarding spearmint, the link to the study I shared  above says "After treatment with spearmint teas, there was a significant decrease in free testosterone and increase in luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone and estradiol". So looks like spearmint might be good for you as it lowers testosterone (which is what you need), increases LH and FSH (which you have low levels of)! 

On to white peony: I did actually see that on Amazon too but I want something simpler (ready made tea bags or pills) coz I'm lazy!! How long are we supposed to boil those roots?? lol Anyway, yep that's the one you want to take. Take a look at the first person's review too!

It's good that you're cautious NaturalLady. Herbs aren't candy and just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's 100% safe. 

Regarding PM, I replied (it's not much of a reply though   ) in the previous page. I think you missed it because it's short!

[hannah]

Spearmint is not good for NBE, might work to lower T-levels but it comes with side effects...As syndeli says it raises LH but thats not all...it interfers with absorption of dietary minerals such as Iron... this could very well been the reason Naturallady got nauseaus after 2 big cups a day. I myself ended up with a headache straight after drinking one big cup.

Oh and for the ones who want less hair, take Astaxanthine..I throw my hand in the fire for it that you guys will be less hairy

[bettie32]

Spearmint is not good for NBE, might work to lower T-levels but it comes with side effects...As syndeli says it raises LH but thats not all...it interfers with absorption of dietary minerals such as Iron... this could very well been the reason Naturallady got nauseaus after 2 big cups a day. I myself ended up with a headache straight after drinking one big cup.

Oh and for the ones who want less hair, take Astaxanthine..I throw my hand in the fire for it that you guys will be less hairy

Hi Hannah, I am the one who got nauseous (and soo fed up) of spearmint! It gave me stomach issues too...and I have issues with iron by the way so no wonder spearmint and me didn't get along! 

I wanted to take Astaxanthin but then I got worried about having to take an aromatase with it...Remember our discussion here?: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=27669&highlight=astaxanthin 
Wow, are you still taking it? On and off and low dose, right? If you've seen improvements in the fuzz department, we should consider it NaturalLady! It's a great antioxidant (from shrimps, lobsters and crabs  ).

[hannah]

Spearmint is not good for NBE, might work to lower T-levels but it comes with side effects...As syndeli says it raises LH but thats not all...it interfers with absorption of dietary minerals such as Iron... this could very well been the reason Naturallady got nauseaus after 2 big cups a day. I myself ended up with a headache straight after drinking one big cup.

Oh and for the ones who want less hair, take Astaxanthine..I throw my hand in the fire for it that you guys will be less hairy

Hi Hannah, I am the one who got nauseous (and soo fed up) of spearmint! It gave me stomach issues too...and I have issues with iron by the way so no wonder spearmint and me didn't get along! 

I wanted to take Astaxanthin but then I got worried about having to take an aromatase with it...Remember our discussion here?: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=27669&highlight=astaxanthin 
Wow, are you still taking it? On and off and low dose, right? If you've seen improvements in the fuzz department, we should consider it NaturalLady! It's a great antioxidant (from shrimps, lobsters and crabs  ).

Well Id either take an Aromatase or an anti-androgen why would you take both? They individually take care of androgens anyhow....You are still a woman so you dont need thats much anti-testosteron weapons

[bettie32]

Well Id either take an Aromatase or an anti-androgen why would you take both? They individually take care of androgens anyhow....You are still a woman so you dont need thats much anti-testosteron weapons

No, I'm not really interested in an aromatase right now but I thought with astaxanthin we had to take an aromatase? I thought that's what we discussed in the I thread I posted above....not sure if I misunderstood   Yes, we do also need a bit of testosterone and DHT. Lowering them too much wouldn't be good either.

[NaturalLady31]

ave
Haha yes, let's form a "less hair, more boob" club 

I've only done 2 cycles of hops (and I started off with a very low dlose) but if all is good, you might like to consider it one day. It's a phytoestrogen, it's also a type of anti-androgen, stimulates prolactin and some say that it could also act like a pro-aromatase. Instead of taking a million different herbs (because many believe that for NBE you need to take one herb for estrogen, one for prolactin, one pro-aromatase etc......). Hops is practically 4 for the price of 1. Plus I get side effects very easily so the less stuff I take, the better. 

Regarding spearmint, the link to the study I shared  above says "After treatment with spearmint teas, there was a significant decrease in free testosterone and increase in luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone and estradiol". So looks like spearmint might be good for you as it lowers testosterone (which is what you need), increases LH and FSH (which you have low levels of)! 

On to white peony: I did actually see that on Amazon too but I want something simpler (ready made tea bags or pills) coz I'm lazy!! How long are we supposed to boil those roots?? lol Anyway, yep that's the one you want to take. Take a look at the first person's review too!

It's good that you're cautious NaturalLady. Herbs aren't candy and just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's 100% safe. 

Regarding PM, I replied (it's not much of a reply though   ) in the previous page. I think you missed it because it's short!

Yes, Bettie, we should start a club.. although I hope we'll have to change the name of it soon to something like, "Busty and Hair-Free".

Wow, I didn't realize that hops was so chock full of multiple NBE uses. I will definitely keep it waiting in the wings because I like the idea of a multi-purpose herb.. especially since I already take other supplements daily.

I know some people haven't gotten good results with spearmint, like you and Hannah. But frankly I love the taste of it and have been enjoying it iced 2x a day without side effects so far. That said, I also was aware that spearmint (and many other types tea) can be associated with iron absorption issues. From what I've gathered, it seems to be more likely to do that if you drink it with meals ( I've been drinking mine in between meals). I also read that teas usually affect non-heme iron (meaning plant based). I'm a meat eater, I eat calf's liver often (which has a high level of heme iron), and I also take a heme form of iron in a supplement made from liver concentrate. I read as well that spearmint has a high iron content itself, so maybe any negative effects would be negligible in some cases. Anyway, at this moment I 'd like to give the spearmint a fair shot before I throw it out the window.. I do have astaxathin in my pantry as well though, and it will be waiting with the hops if I decide to change course in the near future. If we know anything about NBE yet, it's that everything about our programs is subject to change if necessary.

I finally caught your note about PM, Bettie!

Thanks for all this info, girls.  
[font="Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif]Save[/font]

[bettie32]

 NSa

Haha Busty and Hair-Free! Yep that's our goal! 

Oh you should definitely continue with spearmint NaturalLady. It gives you no issues so keep at it. What works for one person doesn't work for another and what doesn't work for someone works for somebody else (I keep saying that in every thread lol but it's true. You have to know and listen to your own body). I read a thread on here about girl who grew just from taking spearmint pills so I'm very curious to hear about your results. Wish I could have continued but just the thought of drinking it for months on end.... 

Going back to our discussion about inositol. I actually read several articles and about experiences of other women who took inositol to lower their testosterone even though they had no issues with insulin resistance and that it works just fine. I wonder what would be logic there?? Anyway, I think I'll try it out for at least 6 months before making my final decision. We should always give things more time to work before jumping to conclusions. 

Wow if you have astaxanthin in your pantry you have no excuse!! You should try it and update us!

[NaturalLady31]

 NSa

Haha Busty and Hair-Free! Yep that's our goal! 

Oh you should definitely continue with spearmint NaturalLady. It gives you no issues so keep at it. What works for one person doesn't work for another and what doesn't work for someone works for somebody else (I keep saying that in every thread lol but it's true. You have to know and listen to your own body). I read a thread on here about girl who grew just from taking spearmint pills so I'm very curious to hear about your results. Wish I could have continued but just the thought of drinking it for months on end.... 

Going back to our discussion about inositol. I actually read several articles and about experiences of other women who took inositol to lower their testosterone even though they had no issues with insulin resistance and that it works just fine. I wonder what would be logic there?? Anyway, I think I'll try it out for at least 6 months before making my final decision. We should always give things more time to work before jumping to conclusions. 

Wow if you have astaxanthin in your pantry you have no excuse!! You should try it and update us!

Oh and I forgot to specify, Hair-Free but still with plenty of hair on our heads! Haha. We don't want completely hair free!

I get why you stopped with the spearmint.. it could get monotonous since you have to drink so much. Hopefully I'll do ok with that as time rolls on. But like I said, everything is subject to changing.  

I have a lot of optimism about inositol for certain people. I too have seen reports of ladies lowering T successfully with that, so keep at it! You're so right about us not giving things enough time to see what will happen..   We want results.  Now.  Or better yet, yesterday.

I know, I know. I'm kind of bad about ordering things and then it sitting in my "supplement drawer" waiting for me to decide to take them! Lol. I'm sure I'll get around to the astaxanthin and I'll definitely let you all know if I see miracles happen!!

[bettie32]

Oh dear, we definitely want to keep the hairs on our heads 
 "Busty and Hair Free" actually sounds like a commercial for a cheap beauty product (which I would totally buy!!!  ). 

Love that expression you came up with: we want results yesterday! It's so true and so many of us on here can relate. It should be on a poster. "With Busty and Hair Free, you will get your results.......yesterday".